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Kriptovalute - opšta diskusija

Ajde da se fokusiramo na porez posle HODLa, da vidim koji je to koji redovno isplacuje zaradu, siguran sam da 99% cekica. Ko i prevrce nesto konstantno je u kriptu odnosno off-limits sto se tice drzave (makar za sada) i opet ce, makar kako ce drzava to da posmatra, biti hodleri kada jednom dodju da to povuku.

Svi licitiramo ali najlogicnije je da to bude porez na kapitalnu dobit, a stopu drzava moze i posebno da odredi.

Ako dodjemo do toga da mora se prijavi, pa da se krene dokazivane poreklo.. pff.. sumnjam da iko to moze da dokaze. Drzava ce sigurno pokaze malo dobre volje, nije sto zeli nego sto mora i na neko ce oko zazmuri ako krene da se sliva recimo 15% nakon svakog potezanja na racun iz hodla. Dobra je to kinta, nema drzava bas resursa da se pegla sa stotinama i hiljadama pojedinaca.
Drzava standradno preti, narod cuti i steka, jedni druge oce *****u ali se na kraju nadje neki dogovor. Pojedini najebu za primer ali vecina prodje pristojno do odlicno, ima tu i srece i tajminga. A najvise korupcije.
 
Dividenda se ne računa u zaradu tj. godišnji obračun, nešto si pobrkao ... s druge strane, prihod od imovine se računa..

Članovima društva (nazovi vlasnicima) pravnih lica (d.o.o.) prihodi ne ulaze u obračun godišnjeg poreza na dohodak građana. Razlog je jednostavan, pošto je plaćen porez na dobit firme, da bi vlasnik firme postao vlasnik dobiti firme mora da plati još 15%. Tek tada može kao fizičko lice da raspolaže tim novcem. Otuda se ne oporezuje još jednom, a to bi se desilo kada bi ovaj iznos ušao u obračun godišnjeg poreza na dohodak građana.

Izvod iz Zakona

Član 87.

“Godišnji porez na dohodak građana plaćaju fizička lica koja su u kalendarskoj godini ostvarila dohodak veći od trostrukog iznosa prosečne godišnje zarade po zaposlenom isplaćene u Republici u godini za koju se utvrđuje porez, prema podacima republičkog organa nadležnog za poslove statistike, i to:

rezidenti za dohodak ostvaren na teritoriji Republike i u drugoj državi;
nerezidenti za dohodak ostvaren na teritoriji Republike.
Dohotkom iz stava 1. ovog člana smatra se godišnji zbir:

zarada iz čl. 13. do 14b ovog zakona;
oporezivog prihoda od samostalne delatnosti iz čl. 33. i 40. ovog zakona;
oporezivog prihoda od autorskih prava, prava srodnih autorskom pravu i prava industrijske svojine iz čl. 55. i 60. ovog zakona;
oporezivog prihoda od izdavanja nepokretnosti iz člana 63. stav 3. ovog zakona;
oporezivog prihoda od davanja u zakup pokretnih stvari iz člana 82. st. 3. i 4. ovog zakona;
oporezivog prihoda sportista i sportskih stručnjaka iz člana 84a ovog zakona;
oporezivih drugih prihoda iz člana 85. ovog zakona;
prihoda po osnovima iz tač. 1) do 7) ovog stava, ostvarenih i oporezovanih u drugoj državi za obveznike iz stava 1. tačka 1) ovog člana.
 
Meni i dalje nije jasno zasto bi isplacivali dividendu. Sta planirate sa tim parama? Pa ostavite kao nerasporedjenu dobit i to sto ste hteli kupite na ime firme (stan, auto, jahta nebitno)
 
Ima li neko trezor hardware wallet viska?
 
Dividenda se ne računa u zaradu tj. godišnji obračun, nešto si pobrkao ... s druge strane, prihod od imovine se računa..

Članovima društva (nazovi vlasnicima) pravnih lica (d.o.o.) prihodi ne ulaze u obračun godišnjeg poreza na dohodak građana. Razlog je jednostavan, pošto je plaćen porez na dobit firme, da bi vlasnik firme postao vlasnik dobiti firme mora da plati još 15%. Tek tada može kao fizičko lice da raspolaže tim novcem. Otuda se ne oporezuje još jednom, a to bi se desilo kada bi ovaj iznos ušao u obračun godišnjeg poreza na dohodak građana.

Izvod iz Zakona
...

Top, bravo, jasno.
Samo i dalje ne kontam koga zanima dividenda, postotak ljudi ovde koji trguju preko pravnog lica je ovde verovatno 0.00. Ili mozda promil ? :D
 
Nemam pojma, odgovorio sam na dezinformaciju... A posle 1. januara možda neko bude registrovao d.o.o - to je svakako jedno od povoljnijh poreskih formata baš zbog tih dividendi koje ne idu u godišnji obračun, samo zarada za ovlašćenog predstavnika.
Sad da kupuješ dobra, i pokretna i nepokretna kao pravno lice...
 
Ne moze biti povoljnije da imas firmu sa troskovima koje prate firmu. Svaki vlasnik pravnog lica zeli da ima pare na fizickom i bas u tom cucu grmi zec, tesko! :)
Ako bude 15% poreza na kapitalnu dobit to je top i prica staje.
 
Poslednja izmena:
hmmm

"The more interesting news yesterday was in crypto. SEC is suing Ripple and calling XRP an unregistered securities offering. This is a landmark lawsuit which will have serious implications for crypto going forward. It is not unusual for the US government to launch major anti-trust action in the waning days of an administration. The US vs IBM lawsuit was filed in Jan 1969 in the last days of the Lyndon B Johnson administration after a crazy 1968 year when Martin Luther King and Robert F. Kennedy were assassinated and Nixon was elected. That government lawsuit broke IBM’s monopoly on the computing business during the Nixon and Ford years and led to the creation of Microsoft, Intel, Apple and the entire US personal computer industry that we know today. So these type of lawsuits filed at the end of an administration matter and they matter a lot. It will be a mistake to consider this a lame-duck lawsuit. It will be continued in full force by the next administration.

Ripple is singled out here because it is a private sector company and their crime was that they dared to print a currency which is the privilege of the US government. The US government wants to make an example of Ripple that private sector entities should not be in the business of creating currencies. It will be easy for the US government to prove their case because Ripple was trying to get banks to use XRP as a cash replacement by paying them. The SEC is being very tough in this lawsuit. They are prosecuting directly the CEO and top players in Ripple and will accuse them of securities fraud. They will ask them to return the money from the token sales and will force them to pay penalties. In effect, Ripple will be destroyed and with it, its XRP token. The US government will force all the crypto exchanges to delist XRP. So if you have any XRP, you have to get rid of it and don’t think about buying it again. This thing is going to zero.

What are the consequences of this lawsuit for the crypto industry? The first thing I can think of is that the SEC will treat crypto as securities (like stocks) as opposed to commodities, bonds or currencies. That means you will have to report and pay capital gains on your crypto transactions just like you do with stocks. I guess retail investors are kind of ready for that anyway if they invest via Kraken or Coinbase. But this is a more far reaching determination than appears at first from a different perspective. This determination means that the risk weighting for crypto as a financial instrument will never as low as Gold, cash or government bonds. Crypto is Tier 3 capital. It will never be Tier 1 capital like Gold, cash and government bonds. That means that the dream that Bitcoin will be on Central Bank balance sheets is simply NOT going to happen. Bitcoin will never be like Gold, a Tier 1 central bank asset.

The 2nd thing is that the SEC will go after public and non-public companies that invest into cryptocurrencies and charge them if they don’t do proper disclosures and follow investor protection guidelines. The first thing that comes to mind here is Michael Saylor of MicroStrategy who decided to put his company’s corporate cash into Bitcoin. The US government will not consider Bitcoin a cash substitute and Saylor will run into trouble for using Bitcoin to store corporate cash. MicroStrategy is likely to be hit next and Saylor will be forced to sell the Bitcoin. So I think we have big Bitcoin sales on the horizon. Obviously, Saylor is more than welcome to become an investment manager where he can invest in Bitcoin and have an investment fund or ETF that has passed SEC approval. But the pipe dream that S&P 500 companies will be allowed to invest their corporate treasury money into Bitcoin is over. SEC is making it clear that crypto will not be allowed to be used on corporate balance sheets."
Послали сте Данас у 10:59
"The SEC lawsuit means that Facebook’s Libra is over before it even starts. While I can see the SEC being ok with USD pegged stablecoins like USDC or USDT as US dollar substitutes and various cryptos as equivalent to stock market investments, I don’t think the Fed will allow companies to create their own cash substitutes. And Libra is Facebook’s cash substitute. Facebook’s Libra is not a stablecoin pegged to the USD but to multiple currencies with its own formula. Regardless, Facebook meant Libra to be a cash substitute and the SEC simply won’t allow that. So Facebook’s Libra is out. Stellar is also going to get nailed by this because XLM is also a cash substitute.

To summarize, XRP, XLM and Libra are dead.

We likely see a big selloff in Bitcoin as the SEC forces Michael Saylor’s hand. As a result all other crypto sells off. But I think that is simply the next buying opportunity for our Gen 3 POS crypto. Neither Cardano, nor Polkadot, nor Algorand have any similarity to Ripple. They never were meant to be cash substitutes but tokens used to power a cloud computing network so they will be treated as securities (like Microsoft stock). The founders of these networks know all of that stuff and they know to stay away from money printing power of sovereign governments.

As soon Yellen comes around, Bitcoin and Ethereum will be assessed carbon taxes. This SEC lawsuit against Ripple is the beginning of the regulation of crypto. And once crypto gets regulated, the Proof-of-Work consensus carbon footprint will become a major issue for the governments in Europe and the US. So some form of carbon taxation for Bitcoin and Ethereum transactions will be the minimum we will see. Bitcoin can crash big time here. I won’t be surprised if Bitcoin drops to $10,000 and below in coming months. Once Bitcoin sells off, it will selloff fast. All that institutional buying of Bitcoin can stop on a dime if the SEC halts it. And we know that Bitcoin drags the whole alt-coin complex with it. So be ready for a big dip."
 
Ovo se odnosi samo na USA...

Dolar je sve slabiji i nema vise moc koju je imao.

BTC da propadne zato sto SEC regulise kripto?
Cisto sumnjam, regulacija mora biti prihvacena konsenzusom od strane celog sveta,
ne samo od par birokrata u Americi...


Poenta je da je crypto velika inovacija, ko je ne prihvati zaostajace za drugima.
I ako pokusaju da ogranice BTC do neke velike mere, postojace sivo trziste koje nece moci da kontrolisu, a bice ogromno...
 
Poslednja izmena:
hmmm

"The more interesting news yesterday was in crypto. SEC is suing Ripple and calling XRP an unregistered securities offering. This is a landmark lawsuit which will have serious implications for crypto going forward. It is not unusual for the US government to launch major anti-trust action in the waning days of an administration. The US vs IBM lawsuit was filed in Jan 1969 in the last days of the Lyndon B Johnson administration after a crazy 1968 year when Martin Luther King and Robert F. Kennedy were assassinated and Nixon was elected. That government lawsuit broke IBM’s monopoly on the computing business during the Nixon and Ford years and led to the creation of Microsoft, Intel, Apple and the entire US personal computer industry that we know today. So these type of lawsuits filed at the end of an administration matter and they matter a lot. It will be a mistake to consider this a lame-duck lawsuit. It will be continued in full force by the next administration.

Ripple is singled out here because it is a private sector company and their crime was that they dared to print a currency which is the privilege of the US government. The US government wants to make an example of Ripple that private sector entities should not be in the business of creating currencies. It will be easy for the US government to prove their case because Ripple was trying to get banks to use XRP as a cash replacement by paying them. The SEC is being very tough in this lawsuit. They are prosecuting directly the CEO and top players in Ripple and will accuse them of securities fraud. They will ask them to return the money from the token sales and will force them to pay penalties. In effect, Ripple will be destroyed and with it, its XRP token. The US government will force all the crypto exchanges to delist XRP. So if you have any XRP, you have to get rid of it and don’t think about buying it again. This thing is going to zero.

What are the consequences of this lawsuit for the crypto industry? The first thing I can think of is that the SEC will treat crypto as securities (like stocks) as opposed to commodities, bonds or currencies. That means you will have to report and pay capital gains on your crypto transactions just like you do with stocks. I guess retail investors are kind of ready for that anyway if they invest via Kraken or Coinbase. But this is a more far reaching determination than appears at first from a different perspective. This determination means that the risk weighting for crypto as a financial instrument will never as low as Gold, cash or government bonds. Crypto is Tier 3 capital. It will never be Tier 1 capital like Gold, cash and government bonds. That means that the dream that Bitcoin will be on Central Bank balance sheets is simply NOT going to happen. Bitcoin will never be like Gold, a Tier 1 central bank asset.

The 2nd thing is that the SEC will go after public and non-public companies that invest into cryptocurrencies and charge them if they don’t do proper disclosures and follow investor protection guidelines. The first thing that comes to mind here is Michael Saylor of MicroStrategy who decided to put his company’s corporate cash into Bitcoin. The US government will not consider Bitcoin a cash substitute and Saylor will run into trouble for using Bitcoin to store corporate cash. MicroStrategy is likely to be hit next and Saylor will be forced to sell the Bitcoin. So I think we have big Bitcoin sales on the horizon. Obviously, Saylor is more than welcome to become an investment manager where he can invest in Bitcoin and have an investment fund or ETF that has passed SEC approval. But the pipe dream that S&P 500 companies will be allowed to invest their corporate treasury money into Bitcoin is over. SEC is making it clear that crypto will not be allowed to be used on corporate balance sheets."
Послали сте Данас у 10:59
"The SEC lawsuit means that Facebook’s Libra is over before it even starts. While I can see the SEC being ok with USD pegged stablecoins like USDC or USDT as US dollar substitutes and various cryptos as equivalent to stock market investments, I don’t think the Fed will allow companies to create their own cash substitutes. And Libra is Facebook’s cash substitute. Facebook’s Libra is not a stablecoin pegged to the USD but to multiple currencies with its own formula. Regardless, Facebook meant Libra to be a cash substitute and the SEC simply won’t allow that. So Facebook’s Libra is out. Stellar is also going to get nailed by this because XLM is also a cash substitute.

To summarize, XRP, XLM and Libra are dead.

We likely see a big selloff in Bitcoin as the SEC forces Michael Saylor’s hand. As a result all other crypto sells off. But I think that is simply the next buying opportunity for our Gen 3 POS crypto. Neither Cardano, nor Polkadot, nor Algorand have any similarity to Ripple. They never were meant to be cash substitutes but tokens used to power a cloud computing network so they will be treated as securities (like Microsoft stock). The founders of these networks know all of that stuff and they know to stay away from money printing power of sovereign governments.

As soon Yellen comes around, Bitcoin and Ethereum will be assessed carbon taxes. This SEC lawsuit against Ripple is the beginning of the regulation of crypto. And once crypto gets regulated, the Proof-of-Work consensus carbon footprint will become a major issue for the governments in Europe and the US. So some form of carbon taxation for Bitcoin and Ethereum transactions will be the minimum we will see. Bitcoin can crash big time here. I won’t be surprised if Bitcoin drops to $10,000 and below in coming months. Once Bitcoin sells off, it will selloff fast. All that institutional buying of Bitcoin can stop on a dime if the SEC halts it. And we know that Bitcoin drags the whole alt-coin complex with it. So be ready for a big dip."
Korektna i po malo zastrašujuća analiza. Brzo ćemo videti ima li istine jer je ovo idealno vreme u godini i za korekciju.

Koji je izvor?
 
Ovo je glupost. Svi koji muljaju i ne postuju pravila sada kukaju kako se vodi borba protiv kripta. To naravno nije istina. Ono sto Ripple radi godinama je za robiju i to je to. Konacno su ih nagazili. Neka su. Ne brinite nista, nikakav to nece imati negativan uticaj na BTC.

Tapatalk from Poco loco
 
Svakome ko išta razume je bilo jasno da će vlasti kad-tad krenuti u obračun sa partizanskim novcem. Dobra vest je što i u najgorem scenariju ova tužba će se vući po sudovima bar godinu dana, sasvim dovoljno da se sadašnji bull istrči, za posle me nije briga.
 
Jel neko upoznat mozda kako fizicko lice da dobije PIB (poreski identifikacioni broj)?
Razmisljao sam da uzmem Blockcard Litecoin karticu ali traze PIB.

Tapatalk from Poco loco
 
Ne moze koliko znam, fizicko lice po JMBG registruju u PU. Kao i poljoprivrednike.

Preduzetnik fizicko lice moze da dobije PIB.

U taj deo gde ukucavas PIB ukucaj samo JMBG i cao (po meni).
 
Ovo je glupost. Svi koji muljaju i ne postuju pravila sada kukaju kako se vodi borba protiv kripta. To naravno nije istina. Ono sto Ripple radi godinama je za robiju i to je to. Konacno su ih nagazili. Neka su. Ne brinite nista, nikakav to nece imati negativan uticaj na BTC.

Tapatalk from Poco loco




:D
 
Poslednja izmena:
Tnx. Odradicu to s karticom samo da dodjem kuci pa cu javiti sta i kako.

Tapatalk from Poco loco
 
a kako se dokazuje ulaz izlaz kod monera ili tih untracable kriptowaluta, sta nekog sprecava da kaze da je krenuo sa 2 koina i napravo 1000000 monero coina, plati sad hi 15% i opro je bilion eura instant
 
Poslednja izmena:
Ako neko zeli moze da se pridruzi meni i clanu @nesa1999 premium listi Benjamina Cowena od 8. januara.Kontakt pm.
 
Poslednja izmena:
a kako se dokazuje ulaz izlaz kod monera ili tih untracable kriptowaluta, sta nekog sprecava da kaze da je krenuo sa 2 koina i napravo 1000000 monero coina, plati sad hi 15% i opro je bilion eura instant

Mora da se ima dokaz o nabavnoj vrednosti i posle o prodajnoj, i na razliku se racuna 15%. Isto je i kod rudarenja. Ako nemas dokaz o ulazu, kada sve prodas na tu celu sumu se racuna 15% (ako na kraju bude 15% za fizicka lica, jer to je nesto previse malo, po meni ce na taj iznos ici i doprinosi...).

Ovo sam juce nasao:

https://mnpadvisory.org/2020/12/24/partnerstvo-mnp-advisory-i-ecd-rs/
 
Mora da se ima dokaz o nabavnoj vrednosti i posle o prodajnoj, i na razliku se racuna 15%. Isto je i kod rudarenja. Ako nemas dokaz o ulazu, kada sve prodas na tu celu sumu se racuna 15% (ako na kraju bude 15% za fizicka lica, jer to je nesto previse malo, po meni ce na taj iznos ici i doprinosi...).

Ovo sam juce nasao:

https://mnpadvisory.org/2020/12/24/partnerstvo-mnp-advisory-i-ecd-rs/
Prestanite da mesate pravna i fizička lica.
Pravno lice mora da ima ulaze za sve što kupuje i prodaje, ako ima sve imaće i za kripto, i da to čuva u arhivi godinama.
Dobit je sve što je prihodovano - svi rashodi i na to se plaća porez. Dakle, kripto, roba, usluge itd.

Fizičko lice ne vodi knjige i ima da dokazuje samo poreskoj ako ga pitaju ili ima malo vise.
Ne sme da se bavi trgovinom! To je posao za preduzeća. Pojedinac može da kupi i proda nešto (nekretninu, kola, valjda i kripto) ali ima problem sa poreskom ako ispadne da je to delatnost odnosno primarni izvor prihoda.

Uglavnom, fizičko lice nema te momente koliki je ulaz pa izlaz pa porez na razliku.
 
Upravo tako, dakle ako se radi o vecim sumama postanite pravno lice :D Ako ste negde zaposleni pa otvorite PR ili DOO iz radnog odnosa, mesečni harač državi je stvarno mali...
 
Mora da se ima dokaz o nabavnoj vrednosti i posle o prodajnoj, i na razliku se racuna 15%. Isto je i kod rudarenja. Ako nemas dokaz o ulazu, kada sve prodas na tu celu sumu se racuna 15% (ako na kraju bude 15% za fizicka lica, jer to je nesto previse malo, po meni ce na taj iznos ici i doprinosi...).

Ovo sam juce nasao:

https://mnpadvisory.org/2020/12/24/partnerstvo-mnp-advisory-i-ecd-rs/

Hmm dobro, kako da imam dokaz o nabavnoj ceni ako sam rudario? Kakvi su nasi pohlepnici ima na kraju da bude https://mediaportal.rs/2019/10/23/u-decembru-zakon-o-poreklu-imovine-porez-75-na-sumnjivu-imovinu/
 
To je proizvodnja, jos uvek se ne zna na koji nacin ce to resiti. Imajuci u vidu da se kao dokaz u proizvodnji namestaja (npr) uzima sav utrosen repromaterijal za stvaranje gotovog proizvoda + amortizacija osnovnih sredstava (masine itd) + rezijski troskovi itd, u slucaju rudarenja bi kao ulaz sluzile sve fakture o kupljenoj opremi koja se knjize na osnovna sredstva (to ide kao godisnja amortizacija) a mesecni trosak je i električna energija (mozda sam jos nesto zaboravio) tako da dokazi su to, mozda i neki izvestaji sa mining pool-a (lupam sada).

Ovo je slucaj za pravna lica
 
Poslednja izmena:
Ovo sto se bilo desilo sa ledgerom je bas lose. Drugar svake nedelje dobije po 2 phising maila, a sada je poceo da dobija i sms-ove.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
 
Zato sto je sad baza javna.

Sent from my Mi 9T using Tapatalk
 
2 phishing maila ? :D
Ja mislim da dobijam 10 za sat vremena, kojecega. Srecom google-ov filter dobro radi.
 
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