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AMD Phenom 45nm

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Jel danas (cetvrtak) Shanghai ?
 
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Rezultati deluju dobro, novi opteroni su konkurentni sa "starim" Harpertown Xeonim clock for clock.
Borbu im olakšava Intelovo insistiranje na rasipničkim FB-DIMM modulima.
E sada problem je što Intel ima Xeone koji rade na višim klokovima, a ni "novi" Nehalem Xeoni nisu daleko.
 
Само напред

AMD Shanghai: We are back!
Opinion
By Rob Enderle, Principal Analyst, Enderle Group
Thursday, November 13, 2008 09:10

Analyst Opinion - Barcelona, which had been positioned as the product that would obliterate Intel in the server and workstation markets, went from a Weapon of Mass Destruction to Weapon of Self Destruction and came close to knocking out AMD for good.

Interestingly enough, it did result is a series of decisions, particularly the one to go fabless, which actually has provided at least the opportunity to outperform Intel at some future time. But that is what was and what may be For now, we are focused on Shanghai, AMD's latest CPU for the server and workstation markets – and this one looks very good.

It showed up timely, it has strong economy tied efficiency and virtualization capabilities, it appears to perform as well as promised, and can generally fit within the critical (for a data center) 75 watt envelope (with 55 watt high efficiency and 105 watt high performance parts due shortly).

Energy conservation

While too early for third party tests to be done yet and I'm a big fan of third party testing, AMD is reporting significant power savings with this new Shanghai part over Barcelona. They are estimating up to 21% energy savings over Barcelona on normal loads and up to 35% while the system is idle. Because energy also relates to heat, this suggests a substantial savings in total operating energy cost over their previous generation, and in the current cost and energy conscious market this should be very important.

They get this savings by being better able to dynamically shut down or idle cores that aren't needed, through improvements in reducing heat output, by being able to better manage the resulting system's power needs more dynamically, and by shifting to more efficient DDR2 memory.


Performance improvements

AMD has implemented a floating point accelerator to increase computational performance, a memory optimizer to improve memory performance, and increased the intelligence of their caching capability, increased the cache by 2X to 8 MB over Barcelona, and enhanced the pre-fetching capability of the part. In addition, they have upped the clock speed to 2.7 GHz and are now using smaller, faster, 45 nm cores and estimating a 35% performance increase over Barcelona as a result.

In general, this is simply a better balanced part overall than Barcelona is and it appears that the performance advantage may have as much to do with better tuning and technology maturity than any one of the other technology improvements.


Live migration advantage

One of the aspects of this product that should stand out sharply is the ability to do live migrations of virtualized environments between heterogeneous (read Intel) platforms. The reason buyers need to do this is because big corporate shops are generally running with limited resources and need to dynamically shift loads between systems that are underutilized and those that are approaching over-capacity, avoid a system failure, or do preventative maintenance (assuming anyone has time to do preventative maintenance these days).

Server environments are typically mixed and being locked into only being able to do homogeneous migrations of virtual systems too limiting for most so this should be a significant advantage.


Wrapping up

The big news here is the product appears to meet or exceed expectations, actually showed up before it was initially promised, and is a strong representation that AMD is back in the game and playing hard again. Competition is good and while Intel continues to execute exceptionally well, AMD has upped its game and now we are back to having real choices. I'm a big fan of real choices.


Rob Enderle is one of the last Inquiry Analysts. Inquiry Analysts are paid to stay up to date on current events and identify trends and either explain the trends or make suggestions, tactical and strategic, on how to best take advantage of them. Currently he provides his services to most of the major technology and media companies.

http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/40176/128/
 
Tajna Denebove overklokabilnosti:

The PFET performance improvement is more dramatic with drive current now up to 660 µA/µm compared with 510 µA/µm on 65-nm transistors. Again, this increased output current is the result of optimized compressive strain for the p-channel device. The new design of the PFET moves the embedded silicon-germanium source/drain regions closer to the channel to maximize the transfer of stress, thereby increasing hole mobility. Although shorter gate lengths are not driving the improvements, it is a reduction in dimensions that allows increased channel stress to provide the performance scaling. AMD 45-nm PFET design reduces the space from embedded silicon-germanium to the channel edge by half.

The transistor drive current for AMD's 45-nm devices is much lower than that of the Intel HKMG transistors. But power consumption is quickly becoming a high priority for server chips. AMD's transistors exhibit very low channel leakage.

Our transistor benchmarks indicates that leakage current is less than one-third of the value measured on AMD's 65-nm process. It's also significantly lower than the Intel 45-nm HKMG process. In fact the Ion/Ioff ratio for AMD's PFET is nearly 10 times better than that for the Intel PFET.
 
Hmm.. recimo da sam nešto i razumeo al mi ne govori mnogo :) Najviše će nam značiti shotovi testiranih i oc-ovanih Deneba na >3Ghz. Pretpostavljam da ti znaš nešto što mi još ne u vezi dolazećih 45nm desktop procesora, malopre sam video na xtremesystemsu da si odgovorio nekom useru da će biti iznenađen (pretpostavljam pozitivno :D) u vezi Deneba.
 
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Tajna Denebove overklokabilnosti:

The PFET performance improvement is more dramatic with drive current now up to 660 µA/µm compared with 510 µA/µm on 65-nm transistors. Again, this increased output current is the result of optimized compressive strain for the p-channel device.
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Ovo valjda znaci da je u p-kanalu tranzistora smanjen otpor, pa je output, t.j. izlazna snaga veca po jednom mikrometru, nego sto je to bio slucaj sa 65nm. Ovo u praxi treba da znaci da mu treba manje napona za ispravan rad.

The new design of the PFET moves the embedded silicon-germanium source/drain regions closer to the channel to maximize the transfer of stress, thereby increasing hole mobility. Although shorter gate lengths are not driving the improvements, it is a reduction in dimensions that allows increased channel stress to provide the performance scaling. AMD 45-nm PFET design reduces the space from embedded silicon-germanium to the channel edge by half.
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slika govori 1000 reci:
nickel_silicidation_on_intel_pfet.jpg


The transistor drive current for AMD's 45-nm devices is much lower than that of the Intel HKMG transistors. But power consumption is quickly becoming a high priority for server chips. AMD's transistors exhibit very low channel leakage.

Our transistor benchmarks indicates that leakage current is less than one-third of the value measured on AMD's 65-nm process. It's also significantly lower than the Intel 45-nm HKMG process. In fact the Ion/Ioff ratio for AMD's PFET is nearly 10 times better than that for the Intel PFET. [/b]
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Ovo znaci da je definicija nule i jedinice u ovim novim pfet tranzistorima daleko bolja, a samim tim to implicira da je simetricnost signala bolja, pa je potrebno manje napona za vece brzine. Ovo ne znaci da su tranzistori brzi, vec samo da ispravnije rade. Curenje elektrona je daleko manje, pa je samim tim i potrosnja ovih procesora daleko manja nego u 65nm.

Sve ovo nista ne znaci ako samo jezgro nije optimizovano za vise radne taktove. Sudeci po tome da su prvi cipovi 95W na 2.7 Ghz, mozemo da ocekujemo veoma pozitivne promene u narednom periodu.
 
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Bas je zanimljivo da "dobre" vesti (u bilo kom smislu) nisu ni 10% interesantne kao lose vesti... :)
 
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Zar nisi cuo za ono - "sto losije to bolje" ? :d

Dobra vest je to sto ce Deneb biti 15-20% brzi i izvlacice 4 Ghz na vazduhu. Ali izgleda da ce i cena biti jaca, pa ko ne zeli da plati mnogo, moze da uzme "stari" 65nm Phenom I. :D
 
Eto nama jos jedan i7 samo iz AMD-a.... :)
 
Phenom II ce tesko biti konkurentan sa Core i7, ali se nadam da ce biti veoma konkurentan ili za nijansu bolji od Yorkfield-a. Mada bi iskreno voleo da gresim, pa da famozni Deneb bude brzi od i7-ice :)
 
Klok za klok i u overkloku ce biti uporediv sa Yorkfieldom, sa tom razllikom sto ima memorijski kontroler. Verzija sa DDR3 memorijom ce verovatno biti nesto bolja i nesto losija od Nehalema.
Konkurentan ce biti svakako i sa Nehalemom ako bude jeftiniji od njega.
Core 2 Quad, opet tesko da ce biti za bacanje sto se tice odnosa cena/performanse. Povrsina 2 Wolfdale jezgra iliti Yorkfielda nije preterano velika, osim toga, Yield tih procesora je verovatno veoma visok. ;)
 
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BigJoe je napisao(la):
Phenom II ce tesko biti konkurentan sa Core i7, ali se nadam da ce biti veoma konkurentan ili za nijansu bolji od Yorkfield-a. Mada bi iskreno voleo da gresim, pa da famozni Deneb bude brzi od i7-ice :)
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I ja mislim isto. Bilo su super, ali tesko da ce biti i vrlo blizu a kamoli brzi od i7. Neka bude na pola puta izmedju Yorkfielda i i7 i bice ok (koliko toliko).

I da, sto kaze drfedja posle ide i verzija sa ddr3 mem sto ce isto doneti neki boljitak..
 
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Phenom ][ je podrzan i od strane AM2 ploca koje su podrzavale Phenoma I. ;)
 
Skenjao sam se... Ocekivao sam da ce jedna od najboljih OC ploca (ako ne i najbolja) podrzati ove Phenome...

Hint: Asus M2 Crosshair!
 
Po svemu sudeci Deneb ce biti bolji od Q9xxx serije. E sad Intel ima i Core i7...
 
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delimir je napisao(la):
Po cemu sudeci? Po gomili objavljenih rezultata? :)
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Hmm pitanje je totalno na mestu, rezultata nema. Al' mislim da postaje jasno da ce Deneb biti takmac sa Yorkfield-ima. A mozda je to samo moja zelja da bi bilo zanimljivija nama koji volimo hardver :D
 
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Taj daneb je po svemu sudeci identican overklokovanom e6300
 
Sarkazam vec vidjen, samo sto ovaj put AMD zaista ima dobre karte u rukama :trust:
:wave:
 
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