Prvi zvanicni test F X vs 9700pro

[Broz]

...ima bre ljudi FX i dobre upotrebne strane, na pr. ovu:
mala shala, ne zamerate, nadam se, a ako da, izvinjavam se

Jos kad ga uzme u ditributivni lanac neko poput AVON-a ili Oriflame-a pa ces ti da vidis

 

[meaculpa]

Jos kad ga uzme u ditributivni lanac neko poput AVON-a ili Oriflame-a pa ces ti da vidis

.... ....

 

[Bogda]

Hvala na pozdravima prijatelju, dragi!
Slazem se sa tobom da je nVidija u startu napravila veliki promasaj i da je NV30 zapravo sledeca generacija (ne bih rekao NV35, jer bi ovaj morao biti znatno brzi, pre je nesto kao NV33 )
U svakom slucaju, jedino sto 'vidiju sad moze da vadi jeste bombasticna PR masinerija i frljanje kojekakvim izrazima koji treba da omadjijaju neukog kupca da bi ovaj potrosio 400 USD-ova na ovog monstruma od cipa i karti(ce). Citava stvar ne bi bila toliko katastrofalna da u razvoj FX-a nisu "spaljene" ogromne pare. nVidija sad mora da cuti i trpi! Ipak nisu toliko bogati da mogu podneti, kao Intel, masu promasaja (Camino, Itanium,Celeron bez kesha...)Znaci, cilj je prodati sto vise NV30-tki i sto je brze moguce krenuti u realizaciju isplativijih NV31 i NV34.ovo sto brze znaci umesto za sest meseci citava operacija"spasi, sta se spasiti da" se mora obaviti za 3, maksimalno cetiri meseca. Covece, pa oni su propustili sezonu Bozicnih praznika!! to je katastrofa za jedan novi proizvod, koji je uz to i zesce skup. Takodje, ne verujem da ce FX kostati tih 399 USD, kao sto kazu. Interesantno je da oni ni uz pomoc najsavrsenijeg proizvodnog procesa (0.13micr, Cu medjuveze, Low-k) ne mogu da naprave dovoljno hladan i proporcionalno brz cip, a imaju samo desetak miliona tranzistora vise od R300-ke. Sto vise saznajem o GFFX-u, sve se vise divim ATI-jevom timu inzenjera i njihovom R300.

Daleko je nVidia od katastrofe.
nVidia ima jednu ogromnu prednost u odnosu na ATI-ja. Ime GeForce je postalo sinonim za graficke kartice gotovo kao i Pentium za mikroprocesore. Totalni analfabeta za racinare dodje kod mene i kaze hocu Pentium racunar i GeForce graficku karticu misleci da je nesto rekao. Dzaba ti ubedivanje da su Athlon i Radeon bolji. Zato razni Dell-ovi, HP-ovi, Gateway-ovi prodaju najvise racunara sa Intel procesorima i nVidia grafickim karticama.
Posto je nVidia ipak manje poznato ime od Intela ona mora da izbaci graficku karticu koja ce biti brza od konkurenta pa makar i po cenu onako blesavog sistema hladjenja. Na taj nacin ce odrzati pomenuti status i nastaviti da prodaje milione MX-ova na racun toga sto je GeForce FX 5800Ultra ipak malo brzi od Radeona 9700Pro.

 

[Broz]

Daleko je "geforce" od "pentium"....
Da li znas kakva je traznja za radetom 9500 kad su u pitanju brand name masine? Nezabelezena u zadnjih 5 godina imajuci u vidu sve gpu-ove!!

 

[olfrud]

NEgo, ocekuje li se u skorijoj buducnosti test na Benchmarku?

 

[Broz]

Polomio sam se od smeha Citiram "Inquirer":

"One area where the GeForce FX does blow the 9700 away, however, is power draw. This sucker pulls no less than 75 watts of heat fully functional, almost a full third higher than the Radeon. This translates into a phenomenal amount of heat and explains why the 5800 Ultra carries a small vacuum cleaner around on its back, rather like an overheated snail.

Lets review what we have here: It's half a year late, it takes up a PCI slot, sucks an enormous amount of power, runs extremely hot, and at last report, sounds like a Dustbuster, performs competitively with ATI's six-month-old Radeon 9700 Pro, and is expected to retail for $499 in the US or approximately 650 Euros in the EU. This isn't exactly a winning combination."

 

[Marti Misterija]

Polomio sam se od smeha Citiram "Inquirer":

"One area where the GeForce FX does blow the 9700 away, however, is power draw. This sucker pulls no less than 75 watts of heat fully functional, almost a full third higher than the Radeon. This translates into a phenomenal amount of heat and explains why the 5800 Ultra carries a small vacuum cleaner around on its back, rather like an overheated snail.

Lets review what we have here: It's half a year late, it takes up a PCI slot, sucks an enormous amount of power, runs extremely hot, and at last report, sounds like a Dustbuster, performs competitively with ATI's six-month-old Radeon 9700 Pro, and is expected to retail for 9 in the US or approximately 650 Euros in the EU. This isn't exactly a winning combination."

hahahahahaha..... ijaaooooo...aaahhaaaahahahaha

 

[silverglider]

Problem sa bukom i grejanjem potice od toga sto je FX serija bila planirana da upadne u interval 300-400 MHz za GPU. Medjutim, posto su kasnili zbog TSMC-ove .13u proizvodnje, ispalo je da u odnosu na R300 tih 300-400 MHz jednostavno nije dovoljno - pa je krenulo na 500 MHz. Izgleda da i u relaciji ATI-nVidia stoji necija svastika :d Potvrda toga je i cinjenica da u o/c-u FX-a niko niije napravio vise od crnog pod noktom.

Mozda su i zakljucili da je ovako bolje - kasnjenje, par tehnickih problemcica i na skali malo ispred, nego da su izasli sa FX i FX Ultrom na 300 i 400MHz i obrukali se.

 

[byMaX]

Meni to apsolutno sve nije jasno. Urade chip u 0.13 mikrona da bi mogli da postignu vise frekvencije, a onda se isti toliko greje da je to strasno! Pa ATI bi R300, da je uradio u 0.13 mikrona, n 325 MHz, mogao da hladi sa kulerom sa nortbridza

 

[notax]

Meni to apsolutno sve nije jasno. Urade chip u 0.13 mikrona da bi mogli da postignu vise frekvencije, a onda se isti toliko greje da je to strasno! Pa ATI bi R300, da je uradio u 0.13 mikrona, n 325 MHz, mogao da hladi sa kulerom sa nortbridza

Ma vide li ti onaj Sapphire Atlantis 9700Pro sa pasivnim hladjenjem ???
Zelim gaaaaa !!!

P.S. Chim opljackam banku i ulovim nekoga from USA da mi dopremi to chudo..........

 

[kUdtiHaEX]

Polomio sam se od smeha Citiram "Inquirer":

"One area where the GeForce FX does blow the 9700 away, however, is power draw. This sucker pulls no less than 75 watts of heat fully functional, almost a full third higher than the Radeon. This translates into a phenomenal amount of heat and explains why the 5800 Ultra carries a small vacuum cleaner around on its back, rather like an overheated snail.

Lets review what we have here: It's half a year late, it takes up a PCI slot, sucks an enormous amount of power, runs extremely hot, and at last report, sounds like a Dustbuster, performs competitively with ATI's six-month-old Radeon 9700 Pro, and is expected to retail for 9 in the US or approximately 650 Euros in the EU. This isn't exactly a winning combination."

Ahahahahhahaah uzas :beat: :beat: :beat:

 

[Broz]

Ma vide li ti onaj Sapphire Atlantis 9700Pro sa pasivnim hladjenjem ???
Zelim gaaaaa !!!

P.S. Chim opljackam banku i ulovim nekoga from USA da mi dopremi to chudo..........

Ne znam koliko sam sati potrosio trazeci tu kartu jos od pre dve nedelje i - nisam uspeo
Ako je nadjes podeli to sa nama

 

[Bogda]

Daleko je "geforce" od "pentium"....
Da li znas kakva je traznja za radetom 9500 kad su u pitanju brand name masine? Nezabelezena u zadnjih 5 godina imajuci u vidu sve gpu-ove!!

Voleo bih da vidim neke brojke da to potvrde. Kolko ja gledah sajtove velikih OEM-a slabo negde videh 9500 i kao opciju.

 

[Broz]

Informacija iz DELL korporacije. Kuma mi radi tamo. Brojke nemam...

 

[Broz]

David Kirk (Chief Scientist u nV) kaze: “Delivering a truly revolutionary graphics processor simply isn’t possible using older process technologies like 0.15 micron.”

Pitam se koji "beautiful minds" rade u ATi-u...

U vezi DDR2 jedan od vodecih baja u ne mogu da se setim kojoj kompaniji ali verujte zna sta prica :

“There is no difference between DDR1 and DDR-II in terms of how wide the bus can be. The only problem is on the application / implementation level, that is, if the bus is running at what, 1000 MHz, signal skew between the different I/O lines will be extremely difficult to control. Again, that is mostly a board level problem, now a general issue with DDR-II. The GeForce FX uses a 10 layer PCB already because of the signal integrity issues…”

 

[Nedjo]

Da se nadovezem na citate upucenih ljudi:

Evo sta kaze jedan pouzdan izvor:
"Guys.. I dont work at nvidia, and I dont have *That* kind of information. And anything I tell you is never ging to get validated in any kind of an official way. I simply had a conversation with someone who works at a another company whos identity will remain unrevealed. It was basically a long exchange regarding the true nature of the delays behind the GFFX based on obvious connections all IHV's have with TSMC. The gist of it is that in the .13u process was *NOT* all Botched up at TSMC, there was defenitly problems getting the low-K Dialectrics working towards the end of the process.

[story summation]
The Nv30 origionally taped-out in its origional form back in feb of last year. Which is why you'all around here kept getting in flame wars over the summer after every single Stockholder address. Its taped out, its not taped out, its taped out etc etc etc.. There were even *very* early revisions of the Nv30 in peoples hands before the R9700 debuted at E3 in that doom-III system.

The problem was, that for whatever reason the Nv30 was having serious Signal bleeds and other anomalies which caused various low level revamps of the design. Yes there were a few issues with the .13u process where the Nv30 was concerned but other products had already been completely finished at .13u all through last year. However the entire nature of the issue changed once the true nature of the R300 was revealed. Then the entire focus changed on getting the core speed up. Origionally the Nv30 was designed to be released at 350 and 400mhz. which was clearly not going to cut it against the R300 from a technology and performance leadership position. Back to the drawing board for a face lift, and Final revisions etc were finished around august, and the chip was finally ready for a Final Tape-out in early september. However this is where all the MAJOR issues with .13u comes into play. They hit serioius issues at that point with the implimentation of low-k. Which is what they were completely banking on for getting lower power and heat, in order to get the process running at 500mhz, the new target Clock Speed for the ULTRA. the whole Train wrecked for about 14 days. Nvidia at that point said.. screw this low-k, we can make it without it. They got the chip back in its final form witout low-k. It *almost* worked but there was some issue that required a final Metal layer respin. Which had them back and with a final working prototype board with initial drivers just before their big launch. However, the card was still only running at 400mhz at that point. It would run at 500mhz.. but it was very unstable. Thus they at this point (I believe) did one more revision to the chip they have now. They already new that they would need a giant cooling system as soon as low-k fell through. What they did not count on was the necessity of a 12 layer PCB for complete stability due to power requirements and other issues until pretty late in the game. Thus the big announcement a few weeks ago.

Which all brings us to where we are today. And why the Nv30 is in the current condition that it is. Ultimately it boils down to an Nv30 that was origionally targeted at 350-40mhz, with about 2.5x the performance of the GF4 in the *best* sinario. Which of course would have been a great product if the R300 was targeted at the GF4.

In this sense Type os perfectly correct in his statement about the early overhype. It put Nvidia in a position where they HAD to deliver or it was going to be a complete disaster, they did the only thing they could.
[/story]

 

[MAD_MUzzY]

Muzzy ti mi onda rece da ces da je kupis pa kakva god bila

I hocu, samo sutra
Naravno da cu da je pazarim, samo nek stignu i malo nek se primire cene.(Jos uvek) Nema teorije da se kockam sa ATi-em.
Gf je jos ponesto pored igrackice, al da nesmaram opet po tom pitanju.

 

[Nedjo]

I hocu, samo sutra
Naravno da cu da je pazarim, samo nek stignu i malo nek se primire cene.(Jos uvek)

Mislim da ces se nacekati!
Evo cena u Finskoj:

"ok. Here are the FX-prizes from Finland.

PNY VERTO GEFORCE FX 5800 128MB DVI+VIVO => 04.02.2003 515 €
PNY VERTO GEFORCE FX 5800 ULTRA DVI+VIVO => 04.02.2003 569 €"
Tamo Hercules R9700 kosta 300 jevrica, a Pro 400!

 

[MAD_MUzzY]

Ma nasao si gde ces da gledas
Preporucena cena 5800-tke je 300$ ... znaci 320e ce da bude skoro a nize ce da stigne. Ja se nezurim nigde

 

[Vocko]

Ma nasao si gde ces da gledas
Preporucena cena 5800-tke je 300$ ... znaci 320e ce da bude skoro a nize ce da stigne. Ja se nezurim nigde

Ti nisi normalan, zar ne ?
Preporucena cena za USA 515$ za Ultru, a za Evropu za istu tu Ultru preporucena cena 650e... Ja vidim tu malo vecu razliku, a ti ?

 

[MAD_MUzzY]

E ja cu sad malo da cutim... , jer dosta sam pricao