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A i sto bi razvijali novi kada ovaj mogu da muzu do poslednjeg vapaja ovih konzola koji ocigledno nece jos dugo...
 
Svi se nadate dobrim stvarima za PC kad stignu nove konzole... Bice i toga, to ce biti nova osnova za sve, svakako, ali ce u startu biti mnogo vise stvari koje su nemoguce na pc-u (kad se sve uzme u obzir, posebno promil ljudi koji imaju najjace konfiguracije).

Ne bih se kao PC gamer toliko radovao dolasku novih konzola, tad ce fokus biti 100% na njima (mada tesko da moze mnogo gore od sadasnjeg trenutka po PC) i mislim da ce pc otici jos dalje u drugi, treci plan...

Kad na to dodamo ogromne troskove razvoja, koji ce se tada samo povecati i to verovatno vrlo znacajno, situacija postaje jos ozbiljnija.

E sad, na ovo uvek mozete da kazete: "Ali ja igram samo RPG, igram samo strategije i WOW.." OK, to cete verovatno i dalje i igrati kad stignu nove konzole, bar neko vreme.

Ako se sve nastavi ovako kako je krenulo, bice gadno kad stigne cuveni next-gen.

Doduse, bice moguci svi oni manji projekti o kojima nano.tube stalno prica na dobar nacin, ali i oni ce delovati drugacije kad se desi generacijski pomak i neke stvari postanu novi standard.

I ona cuvena recenica koju je svaki geek/pc gamer izgovorio i koja kaze da kod svakog dolaska nove generacije konzola slucamo o "smrti" pc gaminga, da "umire vec 30 godina" itd. - vise nema smisla. Pored tolikog ismevanja, ono cega smo se plasili se zapravo i desilo. Nikakve smrti pc gaminga u bukvanom smislu nema, naravno, ali sve ono sto je nekada definisalo PC gaming i ucinilo da ga zavolimo vise nego svaki drugi vid igranja je skoro nestalo. Ni sam ne znam koliko ce mi biti smesne "Death of PC gaming" teme narednih godina. Znam da smrti nema, ali toga se i ne plasim. PC gaming kakav je danas mi skoro ne treba, ma koliko bio ziv (a ziv je, ocigledno).

Videcemo, svasta moze da se desi...
 
Poslednja izmena:
Source evoulira, nije to isti engine koji se pojavio pre 6-7 godina. Dovoljno je pogledati Portal 2 🙂
 
izgleda ipak zastarelo, mada za igru tipa portal i ne treba nista bolje, sasvim dovoljno
 
Ako je jedan moder uspeo da od HL2 napravi ovo http://www.cinematicmod.com/cm_10.php#screenshots
Onda je Source, daleko od zastarelog 😉 A i kao sto kazes za Portal je dovoljno, siguran sam da bi igra bila
naporna za gledanje da je radjena u Unreal enginu, oslepeli bi od blooma i piss filtera 😀
 
Pa i mnoge druge igre mozes da "unapredis" napucavanjem tekstura od 4+ megapiksela, dodavanjem i menjanjem pojedinih asseta i cackanjem...ali to samo znaci da je igra otvorena za modovanje, ne i da je endzin "moderan".
 
lepo to izgleda za source, ali ja i dalje vidim da je sve kockasto i ostrih linija (mada kazem, okej je sve to nije ni dovoljno igara kvalitetno iskoristilo engine koji postoje danas, samo iz ugla grafickog napretka malo se zakucalo 😉)
 
G!!! je napisao(la):
izgleda ipak zastarelo, mada za igru tipa portal i ne treba nista bolje, sasvim dovoljno
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Možda nije CE3 (bolje rečeno CE2), ali je na nivou ostalih aktuelnih engine-a. Pa dovoljno je pogledati da se pojavio kada i Doom 3 i FC1, da je godinu dana kasnije izašao prvi FEAR. To nije isti engine kao što je bio kada se pojavio, niti će biti isti u sledećim godinama. A bogami recimo ni Crytec nema u planu novi engine do sledeće gen konzola...
 
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G!!! je napisao(la):
lepo to izgleda za source, ali ja i dalje vidim da je sve kockasto i ostrih linija (mada kazem, okej je sve to nije ni dovoljno igara kvalitetno iskoristilo engine koji postoje danas, samo iz ugla grafickog napretka malo se zakucalo 😉)
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Koga uopše zabole za grafički napredak, kad skoro sve ostalo stoji? Ili možda želiš da igraš "cotton candy" igre čiji su mehanika i dizajn uprošćeni za "mass appeal", i skill cap užasno spušten?

You may label me as a "game elitist" all you want if it makes you feel better about defending mediocrity. At the end of the day, we'll all be stuck playing "streamlined", "accessible" and "pick up and put down" games until we're sick, but in the end some of us won't put a blindfold on to believe these games are better than they are.
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Ivan® je napisao(la):
Nikakve smrti pc gaminga u bukvanom smislu nema, naravno, ali sve ono sto je nekada definisalo PC gaming i ucinilo da ga zavolimo vise nego svaki drugi vid igranja je skoro nestalo.
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Ivane, da li bi mogao da budeš precizniji u vezi ovoga? Pretpostavljam da (između ostalog) misliš na ono što je npr. Levine radio pre Bioshocka?

Meni npr. nedostaju real-time/akciono-taktičke igre poput Syndicate-a, Commandos-a i CF-a.
 
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Pa eto, hteo sam da u isto vreme kazem koliko su glupe price o smrti pc gaminga i koliko mi je glup "zivot" pc gaminga postao. Sve sto ja pricam na tu temu je moj licni dozivljaj, a ne stopostotna istina 🙂

Za mene je ogroman deo onoga sto mi se svijdalo u pc gamingu i zbog cega sam ga zavoleo stvarno umrlo. Ovo danas me skoro uopste ne zanima (jos gajim poneku nadu da bi stvari mogle da se promene, ne znam kako).

Mnogo mi je drago kad ti postujes dobre stvari od nekog malog, nezavisnog tima i to me podseti na te dane. Doduse, tad nisi morao da budes toliko mali i pravis toliko "male stvari" da bi igre tako delovale.

Pricali smo hiljadu puta sta mi nedostaje, sve mi nedostaje (ukljucujuci i sve to sto si nabrojao).

Dosao je trenutak (kod mene) da se definitivno obistinilo ono sto se godinama provlacilo kroz "death of pc gaming" teme (smejao sam se razlozima koji se navode, a "smrt" se u mom slucaju desila iz sasvim drugih, mojih razloga). Ne igram skoro nista na pc-u i zao mi je zbog toga, sem starih igara da bi se podsetio i ispratim/podrzim stvari kakve nam ti ovde cesto serviras 🙂

Eto, to sam hteo da kazem, tako je, sta god da je razlog. Nadam se nekim boljim danima za PC (ne znam na osnovu cega).

Da se ne trudis previse da mi objasnjavas i da me razuveravas, znam da je to vrlo slicno kukanju na danasnje popularne filmove, muziku i sve ostalo. Ali sta da radim?
 
Valve: "Jerks" should pay extra for games
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-05-16-valve-jerks-should-pay-extra-for-games

"An example is – and this is something as an industry we should be doing better – is charging customers based on how much fun they are to play with. Some people, when they join a server, a ton of people will run with them. Other people, when they join a server, will cause others to leave.

"We should have a way of capturing that," he continued. "We should have a way of rewarding the people who are good for our community.

"So, in practice, a really likable person in our community should get DOTA 2 for free, because of past behaviour in Team Fortress 2. Now, a real jerk that annoys everyone, they can still play, but a game is full price and they have to pay an extra hundred dollars if they want voice."
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E ovo bi bilo ekstra 😀
 
Ivan® je napisao(la):
Mnogo mi je drago kad ti postujes dobre stvari od nekog malog, nezavisnog tima i to me podseti na te dane. Doduse, tad nisi morao da budes toliko mali i pravis toliko "male stvari" da bi igre tako delovale.
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I tad su bili mali, samo se iz ugla tog vremena nama činilo da su veliki. Pre svega zbog načina na koji je tehnologija napredovala je bilo moguće da se ne zahtevaju veliki timovi i budžeti, a da u isto vreme naprave nešto veliko i značajno što je ostavilo traga kad se gleda iz ove perspektive. I to ne važi samo za PC. Colony Wars npr. 🙂


I ti manji/"srednji" timovi danas mogu da naprave nešto što je po kvalitetu isto ili bolje od ostalih igara u žanru i inovira/unapređuje ga, i da ne zaostaje puno u produkcijsom smislu, ali ne u svim naravno.

Šta misliš o ovome npr.? Ovde već ulazimo u filozofiju i neke druge oblasti van igara, ali šta da se radi.

But enough with the joking and the name-calling -- there is an important point behind all the infantility, and that point is that increasingly complex games are necessary in order to sustain the interest of an intelligent human being. Electronic games are like toys in a way (and forget about what Wikipedia tells you on the differences between toys and games -- listen to what I am telling you here) -- you buy one, you play with it for a while, and then eventually you want something bigger and more intricate, something that does more stuff. It is vitally important that the new toy should do more stuff, since, except if you are feebleminded, a different shape or color will simply not satisfy you, at least not for long. This is essentially the same sentiment that Pauline Kael expressed in one of her essays, circa 1969 -- only in respect to movies:

"When you’re young the odds are very good that you’ll find something to enjoy in almost any movie. But as you grow more experienced, the odds change. I saw a picture a few years ago that was the sixth version of material that wasn’t much to start with. Unless you’re feebleminded, the odds get worse and worse. We don’t go on reading the same kind of manufactured novels—pulp Westerns or detective thrillers, say—all of our lives, and we don’t want to go on and on looking at movies about cute heists by comically assorted gangs. The problem with a popular art form is that those who want something more are in a hopeless minority compared with the millions who are always seeing it for the first time, or for the reassurance and gratification of seeing the conventions fulfilled again. Probably a large part of the older audience gives up movies for this reason—simply that they’ve seen it before. And probably this is why so many of the best movie critics quit. They’re wrong when they blame it on the movies going bad; it’s the odds becoming so bad, and they can no longer bear the many tedious movies for the few good moments and the tiny shocks of recognition. Some become too tired, too frozen in fatigue, to respond to what is new. Others who do stay awake may become too demanding for the young who are seeing it all for the first hundred times. The critical task is necessarily comparative, and younger people do not truly know what is new. And despite all the chatter about the media and how smart the young are, they’re incredibly naïve about mass culture—perhaps more naïve than earlier generations (though I don’t know why). Maybe watching all that television hasn’t done so much for them as they seem to think; and when I read a young intellectual’s appreciation of “Rachel, Rachel” and come to “the mother’s passion for chocolate bars is a superb symbol for the second coming of childhood,” I know the writer is still in his first childhood, and I wonder if he’s going to come out of it."
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Kael here was speaking out against the lack of ambition in the movie industry; against the endless rehashing of simplistic movie plots, which, sooner or later, kills the interest in movies in every experienced viewer. What she craved was the same thing that any intelligent person craves from any medium or activity: more depth, more complexity, a steadily increasing intellectual challenge in other words, something to keep her brain power constantly engaged. And since the essence of movies is in their plot, she was in effect asking for more thoughtful, more intricate plotlines -- something beyond the "movies about cute heists by comically assorted gangs" that might have satisfied her in her youth, but could hardly be expected to do so for ever.

Getting back to games, and since the essence of games is not in their plotlines but in their rule systems, we see that asking for more complex games means asking for more involved such systems.
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Independent movies can be made on a shoestring, because an intricate plot requires nothing but imagination. This, as a rule, does not work in the domain of games, because more complex games require more complex rules, and more complex rules require, by and large, bigger teams of developers. They require, by and large, bigger budgets. There are exceptions to this rule, in genres in which by their nature jacking up the complexity is -- pardon the pun -- not such a complex undertaking (see STGs, platformers and puzzle games for example)
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Inače, nevezano za ovo, ja se iskreno plašim šta bi bilo da nema nekih od najrazvijenih zemalja u Evropi (Nemačka, Švedska npr.) da balansiraju US što se tiče tržišta igara... Non-MMO/casual/social PC gaming bi potpuno zamreo.
 
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Meni se sviđa npr. šta je izjavio Ken prošle godine. I nadam se da će se više obistanjavati. 🙂

What's the future of the PC? Social games? MMOs? Freemium?

Fuck if I know. But I know this: The PC is the place where great game developers are born.
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Btw, šta se desilo sa Ivanovim postom? 🙂


Ni meni se ne dopadaju mnoge stvari. Razne kompleksnije strategije, fantasy RPG-ovi, razna generička okruženja u svim žanrovima, simplifikovana mehanika itd. Ni ovi TP cover-based shooteri. Jednom su uveli tu mehaniku i kad je postala dovoljno popularna sad kao mora bude svuda. To je veliki turn-off što se mene tiče.
 
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Ja sam ga izbrisao. Malo sam pobrkao tekstove koje si pominjao i shvatio da mozda sve to nije za ovu temu. Eto, ti si video 🙂
 
nano.tube je napisao(la):
Koga uopše zabole za grafički napredak, kad skoro sve ostalo stoji? Ili možda želiš da igraš "cotton candy" igre čiji su mehanika i dizajn uprošćeni za "mass appeal", i skill cap užasno spušten?
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ne razumem sto me potpr.cavas, samo sam zakljucio da je graficki napredak zakucao, i otkud ti pravo da ti mene osudjujes pretpostavljajuci kakve bih igre voleo da igram (shvatas li koliko je glupo to sve uopste)
sta vise to sto se graficki zakucalo nije lose uopste vec naprotiv, sada se developeri vise fokusiraju na nove ideje i gejmplej, i ne mislim da se tu stoji, manji developeri koji ne mogu da plate kojekakve engine i programere za iste dolaze do izrazaja, plasiraju igre zaradjuju novac... reklo bi se da veliki najvise pucaju...
sav onaj hajp oko novih konzola i bajki koje su plasirane o grafici na nextgen konzolama je konacno i definitivno nestao


p.s. neko je spomenuo syndicate ? najave su da ce igra biti u gta stilu
 
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G!!! je napisao(la):
ne razumem sto me potpr.cavas, samo sam zakljucio da je graficki napredak zakucao, i otkud ti pravo da ti mene osudjujes pretpostavljajuci kakve bih igre voleo da igram (shvatas li koliko je glupo to sve uopste)
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Ne potpr.cavam te, samo sam komentaraisao u malo oštrijem tonu. Nemoj da se ljutiš. 🙂
 
ma nemam sto da se ljutim ne shvatam previse licno prepiske na forumim. zlatnih igara koje mnogi cene ovde, vise nema niti ce ih biti nazalost (ako ih neko ceni to sam onda ja 🙂 )... mozda ubode neko tu i tamo od manjih nepoznatijih developera i to je to sto se iznenadjenja tice... sve je u lepoti i refleksima... publika koja to sve gleda ili igra je totalno drugacija od nas koji smo sazrevali uz klasike pc-a... sve se menja i ide dalje pa tako i igracka industrija. na nama je da izvucemo najbolje iz ponude i uzivamo u tome koliko mozemo
 
Evo šta je rekao Chris Remo iz Irrationala. Doduše, tad još nije prešao tamo.


To modern-day Microsoft, a PC sale is inferior because it doesn't directly aid a platform with meaningful competitors. There isn't really a significant competitor to Windows in the computer gaming arena (although it's my opinion that Microsoft is increasingly setting itself up to allow Apple to put up a serious fight there if they want to), but there are significant competitors to the Xbox 360.

Of course, that's just the situation as Microsoft sees it; I don't think it represents the whole picture. Historically speaking, a MASSIVE advantage Windows has had over Mac OS when it comes to non-enterprise users is that it was the platform for computer gaming. I certainly know that's a big reason I've never seriously considered a Mac.

But gamers who are growing up now and don't have a sense of the historical importance of PC gaming are just going to have fewer and fewer reasons not to buy a Mac, which has been much more successfully promoted as "fun" by its developer despite still being far, far behind in gaming support. Part of that is Apple's proactive success, but part of it is also Microsoft's failure.

Especially with the internet, it should be more than possible to drive an extremely successful campaign pushing the strengths of gaming on the PC--its unique open nature, its diverse range of experiences, its broad array of user-driven input methods, its natural fit to digital distribution, its user extensibility with mods and tweaks, and so on--but at the end of the day, Microsoft is the only company that is truly responsible for that kind of initiative, and if they aren't even interested in publishing games, I don't have much hope for any serious investment.
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Although Microsoft develops and publishes Windows, it is an open platform. No concept approval must be sought to make a PC game, and no royalties must be paid. There is no such thing as a genuinely independent console game; there is always a gatekeeper that has the final say. I love consoles and play on them, so I don't want that to be taken as a slam, but it's a definitely philosophical difference. The PC is the only major platform that anybody can make a game for without having to ask permission. Obviously a AAA game like Alan Wake is still going through a publisher, like nearly any big-budget production does, but I believe it's extremely important that the PC remain as a diverse and well-supported platform, because without the PC, games have the extremely dubious distinction amongst entertainment forms of not having a fully open platform. There will always be a role for publishers, and I don't mean to say every game or piece of entertainment should be independently produced, but I do strongly believe there does need to be a platform that isn't ultimately controlled by a single company.

Anyone can make a PC, a piece of PC hardware, or a PC game, and I like supporting that philosophy. I think it's valuable and meaningful. I truly do not believe that supporting the PC platform is an issue of platform fanboyism. I think there are meaningful reasons to do so. I think there is a need for a closed platform in gaming as well, for stability and simplicity, which is why we have consoles. Both are important, and there is a real difference.
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Poslednja izmena:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-05-17-lionhead-pre-owned-worse-than-pc-piracy

"Piracy these days on PC is probably less problematic than second-hand sales on the Xbox," declared lead Fable III combat designer Mike West. "I've been working on PC games for many years and piracy is always a problem. There are a lot of honest people out there as well, and if they like your game they'll buy it.

"The pirates, whatever you do on whatever system, they will crack it. It might take no time... I think the longest it's taken to happen is two days. Someone will crack it somewhere and there's not much you can do about it.

"It's just a depressing situation we're in that people don't think it's worth spending money on computer games," said West. "What they're doing is making sure there are fewer games coming out in the future and more people out of work, which is a terrible thing.

"Unless you sit down and meet a pirate face to face and have a conversation about what it does, I don't think anything will stop them."

West said that any sales Lionhead make of Fable III on PC this Friday and beyond will be "a bonus".

"For us it's probably a no-lose even with piracy as it is," shrugged West. "But, as I say, second-hand sales cost us more in the long-run than piracy these days."

Most of today's key video game outlets - Game, HMV, Amazon - and even some supermarkets (Tesco) buy and then resell used games from customers. Game publishers have developed a number of initiatives to counter-attack this, the most popular being EA's Online Pass, which bundles a free code with new games that can be redeemed to enable multiplayer or receive downloadable content. Whoever buys the game second hand won't get a free code, which means they'll have to buy a replica online for around $10.

Why do game publishers and developers not like second-hand game sales? Because they don't get any money for the transaction - the shop reaps all the rewards.
 
Naravno, o tome pričam oduvek, zbog tog stava sam ovde bio ismevan pre koju godinu 🙂
 
samo ne razumem kako mogu i da pomisle da zabrane nekom da radi sa igrom sta hoce nakon sto je kupi. ako hoce da je proda nek je proda

mada tu ulece prica valve-a da igre budu servis, ili da se iznajmljuju i tako dalje i tako blize...
 
Pa već se iznajmljuju. Jeste li znali da Risen kupljen preko Steam-a dozvoljava samo dve aktivacije? Strašno.
 
rAMA je napisao(la):
Naravno, o tome pričam oduvek, zbog tog stava sam ovde bio ismevan pre koju godinu 🙂
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Korporativnih kurvi ima na sve strane. 🙂


Najbolji način da daju ljudima inicijativu da kupe igru novu je da prave igre koje su vredne zadržavanja. Svi Fable-ovi sakuju, i naravno da će se truditi da nađu bilo kakve izgovore. Iako se uprkos tome mnogo dobru prodaju zbog nivoa očekivanja ljudi koji ih kupuju i MS-ovog marketinga.
 
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Fak 😀
 
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