Industrija igara

[ABET]

Ma taj Eve je preozbiljan. To nije dobar primer za MMO, nikako.

 

[filipp]

Inace ti isti developeri razvijaju iste igre za sve tri platforme (znaci isti naslov) i pritom je prodaja igara za konzole mnogo bolja ....

 

[ABET]

Pa rekoh da su PC igrači izbirljiviji. Meni je neverovatna činjenica da se svaka AAA igra na konzoli proda u 2 i više miliona kopija ma kakav krš realno bila. Ko su ti ljudi koji kupuju sve odreda ne pitajući za kvalitet? Tvrdim da su deca u pitanju jer samo oni koji troše tuđe pare se rasipaju.

 

[filipp]

Pa zato i dobijamo samo neke portove sa konzola..i tako u krug...PC igraci se zale na kvalitet a developeri na prodaju..a kvalitetnih igara za PC sve manje...

 

[Kobayashi Maru]

Minecraft se za dve godine prodao u 2.5 miliona kopija sve po ceni od 20 dolara što je 50 miliona koji su otišli u džep developera. Samo u zadnjih šest meseci se prodalo milion i po kopija i to godinu i po dana od izdavanja igre. Igra tek treba da izađe za X360, ovo su sve PC brojke.

Terraria koja je kopija Minecrafta se za mesec dana prodala u pola miliona primeraka a u pitanju je indie igra bez reklame.

To znači da ako napraviš dobru i zanimljivu igru i realno je zaceniš nemaš brige oko prodaje. Ko je njima kriv što spucaju ogromne budžete na marketing sve u nadi sa bi postigli 10 miliona kopija za mesec dana poput CoD igara i to po punoj ceni od 59.99$. To se zove pohlepa i nerealna očekivanja, za to kriviti samo pirateriju je licemerno.

PC igrači tj. ono što je ostalo od njih su mnogo probirljiviji i u tome leži problem. PC igrač poput mene neće svako đubre od igre da plati 50 evra kao što će neki klinac koji troši mamine pare na konzolne igre. Kada bi igre imale nižu cenu, manje plaćenog hajpa stizalo uz svaku od njih i više pažnje poklonjeno igrivosti a ne sinematicima video bi kako bi PC igrači više kupovali a manje piratizovali.

+1

 

[Vuk_]

I have a life. I just choose not to live it due to Eve :smoke:

Cuveni citat koji ukratko objasnjava sve sto je potrebno znati u vezi Eve online. :d

GW2 i Secret World su i te kako ozbiljni projekti, koji opet nece zahtevati 18 casovni daily grind zarad "progresa"...

 

[ikonoklast]

Mislim da je u pitanju profit od prodaje PC igara kriv. Mislim, koliko ljudi kupuje original-igre za PC, kako ovde tako i u inostranstvu....Pun je internet zalbi developera kako je industrija PC igara "piratizovana"....

http://blog.wolfire.com/2010/05/Another-view-of-game-piracy

Inace ti isti developeri razvijaju iste igre za sve tri platforme (znaci isti naslov) i pritom je prodaja igara za konzole mnogo bolja ....

Gde si to video, tj. tačne brojke o prodaji PC igara?

Pa rekoh da su PC igrači izbirljiviji. Meni je neverovatna činjenica da se svaka AAA igra na konzoli proda u 2 i više miliona kopija ma kakav krš realno bila. Ko su ti ljudi koji kupuju sve odreda ne pitajući za kvalitet? Tvrdim da su deca u pitanju jer samo oni koji troše tuđe pare se rasipaju.

Možda su površni i gladni "plastike-fantastike" te preferiraju igre sa visokim prezentacijskim vrednostima, bez obzira na to šta se nalazi ispod sjaja?


Average Joe/Pera/ko god će igrati/gledati bilo šta sve dok "izgleda awesome"/ima visoku produkciju/je nahajpovano do neba i nazad. :smash:

 

[DBraveZ]

***, vecina ljudi voli da na nekoj zurci pokupi sisatu plavusu, odveze je do stana i razvali je, iako je vise nece videti 🙂
Tako covek voli i da predje ovo za <10 sati, a ima i igara koje se igraju godinama.
Nista lose u tome, sve je za coveka 🙂

 

[filipp]

=nano.tube;2595353

Gde si to video, tj. tačne brojke o prodaji PC igara?

Baci pogled ovde http://www.vgchartz.com/worldtotals.php

Moze se lepo videti koliko se vise proda za konzole nego za PC platformu.

Primer1 Brink-- 6% od ukupne prodaje cini PC platforma -- KLIK
Primer2 Cryis 2 PC verzija Crysis 2 prodata je u prvoj nadelji 103.373 puta
PlayStation 3-Verzija 228.079 puta
dok Xbox360 verzija igre 366.816 puta.
Izvor

i tako dalje....

 

[ABET]

VGChartz je najneprecizniji mogući izvor kada je praćenje prodaje igara u pitanju.

 

[rAMA]

1. vgchartz nije merodavan pošto ne pokazje broj prodatih igara, već broj igara koji je odštancovan.
2. Te prodaje ne sadrže digitalne distribucije, koja je po nekim izvorima (izjavama nekih izdavača) što se PC stigli retail prodaju. Te brojke se uglavnom kriju, najviše zbog rastućeg nezadovoljstva retailera, kao i da bi se sakrile od konkurencije....

 

[ikonoklast]

Moze se lepo videti koliko se vise proda za konzole nego za PC platformu.

Ako se prodaju više (CoD je najbolji primer), to je zato što većina ljudi nema pojma da PC verzija postoji, a i PC gaming uopšte. Tu su i faktori standarda ljudi koji sve to kupuju, dila sa izdavačem koji će da kreira utisak da je igra dostupna samo na toj platformi, odlaganja igara radi pokušaja uzimanja većeg tržišnog udela u regionima gde PC dominiara, itd. Najviše konzolnih igara se proda u Americi, a tamo je PC najslabiji

Q: A lot of the time those third party titles were cross-platform, but that partnership marketing almost creates the impression they're just for the Xbox 360, and a decent proportion of consumers probably wouldn't know that they're not - how important is that to you?

Chris Lewis: Well, I couldn't have answered it any better than you've just described in the question. It's good to hear you say it, because I think you're right, and we've been very proud of that work. We should also never assume that consumers know what's exclusive and what's cross-platform, but the key is that people know it plays best on Xbox 360, and the price point that we're talking about at the tail end of those ads makes it great, affordable value - and they know where to go and get it.

I think the combination of those brand ads, whether they be product-specific ads or not, we've always tried to hang those ads with a clear message of price and availability. It works very well, and we'll continue to do that.

If we launch a game that is on 360 and PC simultaneously, we basically shoot ourselves in the foot by allowing the German market to choose to play the PC version – because they are more likely to buy that than spend their money on the Xbox 360."

http://forums.bit-tech.net/showthread.php?p=2269376#post2269376

Spojler

I can't really comment on your own experience. But in the UK and London, most people do their 'high-end' gaming via consoles, whereas AAA level PC gaming is like some kind of "hidden, underground way to game".

Some people I know who work in various high street stores, such as PC World, can also confirm the general lack of public awareness about PC gaming.

Of course, everyone already knows about popular PC casual games like Solitaire, MSN games, and Facebook games. So in that sense, everyone does know about PC gaming. But very casual gaming.

AAA level PC gaming has almost zero advertizing for the general public and relies mostly on word of mouth.

When it comes to AAA level gaming, people may walk into a PC World store looking to buy what they see 24/7 on TV: XBOX or PS3.




Every time a new multiplatform game is coming out, I always have someone ask me if I am going to get this new game. If I say yes, the next question they ask is whether I am getting the XBOX 360 version or Playstation 3 version. If I say I'll be getting the PC version, 9 out of 10 of them did not know there was a PC version. These people watch the same TV commercials, but don't notice a PC version. These console gamers are also the very same people who also own PCs at home.

So contrary to what you are saying, PC penetration in every home does not automatically promote PC gaming.

Of course, people will play a casual game of Solitaire (I even play it sometimes) because it's there.

A lot of people get introduced to Facebook games when they log into their Facebook.

However, most of these people are never going to hear about Crysis or the PC version of Call Of Duty automatically just because they have a PC at home.

If you go into the Windows 7 games folder, you will see a link at the top of the page under "Game Providers" for "More Games from Microsoft". This link takes you to a world of more casual games. But you will notice that there is no such link to Steam or Microsoft's "Games For Windows" site which would have made sure you at least become aware of hardcore PC gaming.




I have also recently started to hear console-only gamers talk to me about Crysis, only now after they read about the multiplatform Crysis 2 in a console game mag.

I have never seen the PC-exclusive original Crysis advertized anywhere that the general public can be notified about its existence.

But everyone has seen TV commercials for the XBOX-exclusive FORZA.

I also see the same multi-platform commercials you are talking about as well:

In terms of the commercials promoting the PC version, it usually means nothing more than: showing you the PC version's game cover with the other platform versions at the very end of the commercial.

Most people watching these commercials don't sit there thinking "Why would I play an exact XBOX port on a PC?" - even if they managed to properly notice that crucial one second moment in time when the PC game cover was displayed.

In terms of certain multiplatform game commercials directly 'pushing' people to buy one platform version over another, there are more than plenty of those.

At the end of the multiplatform commercial, you may witness an aggressively styled voice telling you to get the game now on XBOX 360. They will even show you the XBOX 360 console and its retail price, 'pushing' the viewer to walk into a high street store and buy a new XBOX 360 to play this game.






In TV advertizing, there is a big difference between the audience seeing something and actually acknowledging it. This is how certain multiplatform ads fail to properly get through to the masses about hardcore PC gaming. In the split second that the PC box may be displayed on the screen, most people will take that time to look for the box / icon / logo that relates to the platforms that they already expect to get the game on. Maybe there's another explanation. However, on a general public gamers level, somehow, the ignorance continues. Which could be further explained by the fact that many ads for multiplatform games. Yes the multiplatform games, end the ad by showing the viewer one of the consoles and telling them to get the game now on that platform.

There are no such direct PC supporting ads for hardcore games. So psychologically, this increases public ignorance further, and would explain why the same viewer will walk into a PC World store the next day looking for the same console for their hardcore gaming needs. They are told that hardcore gaming = XBOX or PS3. This is why people who have noticed PC versions of certain hardcore games like GTA will usually mentally skip past it. Because they are constantly being recommended to get the consoles by TV ads that broadcast on main channels primetime nationwide to an audience of 20 million or so viewers.

From my own direct experince, once a lot of these graphics-hungry hardcore console gamers see a hardcore PC rig playing their favorite games with better graphics, that's when I can confirm how ignorant they previously were, and how quickly they become interested in hardcore PC gaming.

This brings me back to the issues some stores are having when selling high end gaming PCs. The reaction that people have is generally very positive when they look at the awesomeness of the actual PC hardware. But at the end of the day, most potential buyers, don't really know how the experience will be when they get home compared with hardcore consoles.

All the TV ads are recommending consoles because the game publishers are given incentives by Microsoft and Sony to promote them. Most people don't know about Steam. Most people have only heard of a very small number of PC games like World Of Warcraft, which doesn't appeal to everyone.

The public ignorance is further compounded by Microsoft who do not want any hardcore gaming attention taken away from the XBOX and given to the PC, due to the obvious money they will lose on XBOX sales and lost XBOX game sales if much more potential customers were properly educated about hardcore PC gaming and how you can get graphics even more 'hardcore' than the console versions. Plus all the other PC specific benefits.

Again, this would explain why Microft would not dare to include a link within the 'game provider' section of the Windows 7 Games Folder to their hardcore PC gaming store: "Games For Windows". But they don't mind providing a link to their MSN for causual gaming. No matter how popular PC casual gaming gets, it will never take away potential XBOX sales. Why? Because most people who buy XBOX 360's are people such as my friends who prefer hardcore gaming.

Microsoft will only promote PC gaming so far, such as showcasing the latest Direct X at an exhibition. They want to give an extra benefit of Windows over Mac: Gaming. But where Microsoft will stop promoting PC gaming is well before it eats into any real XBOX sales. They don't mind more PC gamers getting into XBOX gaming. But not the other way round. Hence why the Games For Windows website has a link at the bottom of the home page to the XBOX website. But the XBOX homepage has no such link to the Games For Windows site. Microsoft are scared of the potential lost XBOX sales, and prefer hardcore PC gaming to be a "hidden, underground way to game".



Crysis Versus Killzone


You want to know why I keep on mentioning Crysis?

It's to remind you that it's not 'universally' classed as a 'casual' game, just like 'Call Of Duty' and many other 'hardcore' games that push XBOX and Playstation sales.

Killzone 2 (sold 2 million) - an over-hyped PS3 exclusive game that advertized 24/7 on national TV. Not bad.

Crysis (sold 1.5 million) - Considering the PC hardware specs required, and the fact that PC gaming is a kind of "hidden, underground way to game", Crysis (the PC exclusive with almost zero advertizing) sold extremely well.

Now imagine if Crysis was advertized like Killzone 2.

This is the type of thing that YOU fear, and this is the type of thing that MICROSOFT also fears.



The hidden, underground way to game.


You mentioned how Gaming PCs are not selling in your local stores.

It doesn't surprise me at all.

These stores 'sell' PC gaming similar to the way YOU would sell it: -

Let customer walk into store and be greeted in face with 'consoles' playing all the latest games for everyone to gather around and try - But let 'Gaming PCs' be put to the back of the store without even being switched on and having any demos playing. Then scratch head and wonder why they're not selling

Za najjača PC tržište, npr. u Centralnoj i Severnoj Evropi ne postoje javno dostupne brojke. Nemačka, zemlja velikih filozofa, kompozitora, pesnika, Kraftwerka i PC gaminga 🙂. Doduše, u izveštajima velikih izdavača se mogu sumirane brojke za svaku platformu.
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2010/11/25/crytek-say-the-pc-is-a-generation-ahead/#comment-565139

Actually, those numbers are amazingly high considering that those publishers seem for the most part to go out of their way to not make money on the PC. We can only imagine what it’d look like if the PC didn’t get lazy ports 6 to 18 months after everyone’s bought the game on the consoles and publishers weren’t roped into exclusives by platform holders.

Crysis se prodao više od 1M za nešto više od 2 meseca. Brojke objavljene u januaru ove godine su bile 3M+.


Oni koji su između ostalih, žalili na pirateriju je Epic, koji je u Microsoftovom džepu jedno duže vreme.
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2010/05/17/epic-fa-oh-you-know/

Naravno, bez ikakvog dokaza za to što izjavljuju, kao i svi ostali.

 

[ikonoklast]

Pa da. Ali uopste ne cenim "znanje" da napravis nesto ultra kvalitetno sto moze da skapira 5 ljudi na svetu. Treba znati napraviti nesto u svakom smislu kvalitetno i u isto vreme razumljivo vecem broju ljudi. Ja u svim sferama tako gledam na to. Da li je dobra knjiga ona koju razume 1 covek? Po meni nije. Autor mora da nadje dobar nacin da dopre do ljudi i pogotovo da nadje nacin da im "uvali" svoju viziju bas kako je on hteo. U filmovima sam video hiljadu vrlo vestih takvih primera. To bi trebalo da se podrazumeva. Neko ce skapirati jedan nivo humora npr, neko nivo iznad toga, a neko ceo film bas kako je zamisljeno i plus ce sam svojim razmisljanjem da doda nesto celom iskustvu.

Tako mora da bude i sa igrama, a ne fokus na mentole ili pametnjakovice, pa sta ispadne. Mnogo se sve to neozbiljno i dalje radi, jedino sto je ozbiljno je organizacija i sprovodjenje svih tih biznis planova u delo, a na ljudskom nivou je sve to u gamingu na vrlo niskim granama. Nadam se da ce se promeniti bas kad se igre do kraja popularizuju i stvori se veca publika za bilo sta sto bi neko radio. I kad mnogi ozbiljniji ljudi udju u vec zrelu industriju i krenu da rade nove stvari ili stare na bolji nacin. Ja verujem da je moguce napraviti nesto sto ce biti popularno i kvalitetno u isto vreme. Samim tim i isplativo, naravno.

To je ono što je Warren Spector rekao da se promeni kontekst/setting oko interakcije.
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2010-08-16-spector-were-still-making-cartoons
http://www.develop-online.net/news/35629/Spector-If-you-want-to-make-film-leave-games
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2dO-LqGaD4

Player experience comes first - we have to allow them to show their creativity. No other medium has allowed them to do this. We are unique in the history of humankind. Every player becomes an author when they play a game."

Problem je što postoji vrlo mali broj dizajnera koji su sposobni da naprave takve velike stvari, barem kako se meni čini. Kao i da dobiju adekvatni budžet i potpunu slobodu da urade šta hoće.

Filmovi imaju dosta nižu barijeru ulaska, u smislu cene ulaznica. Igre bi morale koštaju dosta manje da bi se otvorile prema toj široj "ozbiljnoj" publici, da bi to onda dovelo do postojanja situacije o kojoj on priča.

Samo iskreno ne znam kako će se to desiti, iako bih želeo da ostanem optimističan. Govorimo o industriji gde se prelaz CoD-a iz WW2 okruženja u moderno smatra(o) rizičnim.

 

[Ivan®]

Pa dobro, sad je tako. Nijedna faza nije trajala zauvek, pa nece ni ova. Meni se vec cini da se polako udara u zid po mnogim pitanjima, morace da se menja nesto u pristupu svemu ovome na nivou ljudskog roda. Kad se malo sire pogleda, i ne traje ova budjava faza predugo, nego je gadno kad se bas ti tu zadesis u godinama kad ti to nesto znaci. Imali smo prilike da dozivimo i sasvim drugi pristup pre svega ovoga (nevezano za igre, tako je i u filmu, muzici i svemu ostalom).

Nesto ce se prirodno desiti, ne moze ovako zauvek. Mislim na sve u paketu, ne na pc, konzole i slicne price, nego pristup stvaranju, finansiranju i dozivljavanju bilo kog ljudskog "dela". Promenice se "model" po kome se sve to odvija, jer je potpuno neprirodan, samo je pitanje koliko brzo. Mozda i ne prebrzo, ali sta da radimo.


Film ima nizu barijeru ulaska i zbog toga sto ti mozes da uzmes bilo koju kameru i da sa malo znanja i osecaja snimis "dobar film" kod koga tehnicki aspekt stvarno nece biti toliko znacajan zbog same prirode filma kao sredstva izrazavanja. Kod igara je mnogo teze tako nesto uraditi, cini mi se, sem za neke minimalisticke pristupe...

Ali, ipak nekako ne verujem da ce se sve zavrsiti tako sto cemo tokom godina u proseku gledati sve gore filmove, slusati sve goru muziku i tako dalje.

Na duzi rok sam optimista, iako nemam "brojke" da to potkrepim, ali tako se osecam 🙂

 

[ikonoklast]

Samo se nadam da u međuvremenu ne ostanemo na situaciju, ili klasični AAA ili "hipster" igre ili casual/social, sa vrlo malo stvari između. 🙂

 

[borab]

Gotovo je sa industrijom igara, jer vrlo malo ima dobrih naslova, koje zaista vrede.
Mogu se izbrojiti na prstima jedne ruke.
Isto je sa filmovima. Koliko je filmova koji imaju vecu ocenu od 7.5 ? Vrlo malo u toku jedne kalendarske godine.
Oni koji rukovode svetom, mogu da daju novac za sve, jer ih nista ne kosta. Kod njih su stampaske masine.
Da li je normalno da se za 5 ili 6 teniskih meceva dobije po nekoliko miliona $. Jeste ?
Milsim da nije, jer je sve overpriced.
Ali, ovo vec zalazi u mnogo dublju analitiku.

 

[filipp]

Da li je tacno da smo ranije imali vise kvalitetnih naslova za PC platformu ili ne...?

Mislim, tuzno je kada se vidi sta developeri dana izlace iz parceta hardvera starog 5-6 god. (GT5 ili GOW III npr.) a na PC-u samo neki portovi (cast izuzecima).

 

[ikonoklast]

http://h-2.abload.de/img/qlsvekbiq.png

 

[Boris Lozac]

Pa u pravu je, gle na sta lici taj HL 😀 :d

 

[Vuk_]

@Colt: Ovo je mislim treci put kako linkujes taj post, mada dobro reprezentuje kako klinci danas razmisljaju. 🙂

@Boris: Ono sa linka uopste nije Half Life. :d

 

[r0nIn]

http://h-2.abload.de/img/qlsvekbiq.png

Hahahaha... kakav imbecil. Najaca mu je ova crvena linija, kao nogom da je povlacio. 😀

 

[Ivan®]

A whole bunch of nerdy gay shit at the bottom, LOW hardcores i No need for lame ass nerd gadgets and shit su mi najjace stavke...

 

[Vuk_]

U pitanju je, verovatno, tipican americki tinejdzer sa IQ-om manjim od broja patika koje nosi i Halo-om, kecerima i pornografijom kao kompletnim opsegom interesovanja. Skoro mi ga je zao...

 

[borab]

U pitanju je, verovatno, tipican americki tinejdzer sa IQ-om manjim od broja patika koje nosi i Halo-om, kecerima i pornografijom kao kompletnim opsegom interesovanja. Skoro mi ga je zao...

Meni je zao, nas samih.

 

[Kal-El]

ne bih se mogao više složiti s tobom, jer je to tačno na jako puno nivoa.

 

[ikonoklast]

@Boris: Ono sa linka uopste nije Half Life. :d

Mislim da Risbo zna koja igra je u pitanju. 🙂

 

[ABET]

Zna šipak. Risbo takve stvari ne igra jer su strašne (roboti, karakondžule itd.) 😛

Edit: Mada će ove godine imati priliku da probije led i oseti horor igru (GotY) kada Pike i Robinjo izađu na teren u novoj najboljoj Seabass-ovoj fudbalskoj simulaciji (lošeg AI-ja) :d

 

[Gdin_M]

Meni je zao, nas samih.

+1

 

[kimi]

Mislim da Risbo zna koja igra je u pitanju. 🙂

jel ima neki mod za tu igru, malo da poboljsa grafiku? mada i bez toga je merkam na steamu, cim uleti neki popus.. 🙂

 

[ABET]

Ništa završeno. Napisao sam ja kilometarski post kako unaprediti grafiku u DX10 ali to menja samo teksture, osvetljenje (mada ima mana i problema sa senkama) i modele objekata poput kutija, stolova, stolica, oružja, getžeta. Likovi imaju isto poligona što i nije toliki problem da nije animacije koja je kao i sama igra od pre 10 godina što bode oči.

Fino se da srediti igra u odnosu na vanillu, dodati wide podrška, skalirajući UI i ovo što sam gore naveo ali se ne radi o skoro pa komplet faceliftingu kao u slučaju Morrowinda (gde opet fale animacije i bolji modeli likova ali koji dodaje vegetaciju i full DX9 podršku).

Edit: Nemam ni ja DeusEx na Steamu što je zapravo sramota kada se pogleda kakve gluposti imam. Biće igra 100% na popustu za nedelju do dve pošto bi sada trebao biti veliki letnji popust. Mislim da je cena na popustu 2.5 evra ako ne udare jači popust nego inače. Možda bude Collection (kec i dvojka) na 85% što mu dođe opet 2.5 evra.

Možda uzmem i full paket ako daju neki solidan popust na preorder DE HR (recimo 33%).