Šta je novo?
Od:
Filteri

DirectX budućnost

maciguZ

maciguZ

Cenjen
Učlanjen(a)
20.07.2009
Poruke
338
Poena
169
Ocekivano Microsoft ne sedi na lovorikama kada je u pitanju DirectX. Mislim da niko nije otvorio temu, ako jeste moderatori izvinte :d

There is some pretty big news out there. AMD recently released mantle, a low level API that eliminates heaps of CPU overhead (draw calls). It now seems that both DirectX and OpenGL will follow that same route as AMD’s API. Over at this years GDC some slides where shown demonstrating that DirectX and OpenGL will start offering low-level access in order to reduce draw overhead. This should excite gamers with slower processors alright.

Below you can find some quotes from the DirectX and OpenGL presentations that will take place in GDC 2014:

“In this session we will discuss future improvements in Direct3D that will allow developers an unprecedented level of hardware control and reduced CPU rendering overhead across a broad ecosystem of hardware.”

“For nearly 20 years, DirectX has been the platform used by game developers to create the fastest, most visually impressive games on the planet.

However, you asked us to do more. You asked us to bring you even closer to the metal and to do so on an unparalleled assortment of hardware. You also asked us for better tools so that you can squeeze every last drop of performance out of your PC, tablet, phone and console.”

“Driver overhead has been a frustrating reality for game developers for the entire life of the PC game industry. On desktop systems, driver overhead can decrease frame rate, while on mobile devices driver overhead is more insidious–robbing both battery life and frame rate. In this unprecedented sponsored session, Graham Sellers (AMD), Tim Foley (Intel), Cass Everitt (NVIDIA) and John McDonald (NVIDIA) will present high-level concepts available in today’s OpenGL implementations that radically reduce driver overhead–by up to 10x or more. The techniques presented will apply to all major vendors and are suitable for use across multiple platforms. Additionally, they will demonstrate practical demos of the techniques in action in an extensible, open source comparison framework.”

When these optimizations kick in is still unknown and wether or not they will be able to compete with Mantle also remains to be seen of course. It will also be interesting to see if this will be a final DX12 feature, obviously available for Windows 8.1.
Kliknite za proširenje...

http://www.guru3d.com/news_story/directx_opengl_to_open_up_low_level_access.html
 
Poslednja izmena:
Rano li su se setili...
 
@yoyoo moze strucno da komentarise ove navode ali sto se mene tice:

go, AMD, go!

OpenGL i Microshit DirectX imaju duuuuguuuu tradiciju (Microsoft je podrzavao OpenGL 90tih dok im nije zabio noz u ledja ali je OpenGL ipak uspeo da prezivi) ali ono sto se sada desava je da oba tabora tavore... Odlicna je stvar da dodje treci sa hardwerskom podrskom (ni OpenGL ni Microsoft ne prave 3D hardware) i da im prodrma kavez!

pogotovo ako ce u svemu tome intel da izvuce deblji kraj 😀 (AMD ce mu diktirati API :d ~kao sa x64... 😉 bitno je da intel još uvek ima bolji proizvodni proces!)
 
Poslednja izmena:
kovacm je napisao(la):
@yoyoo moze strucno da komentarise ove navode ali sto se mene tice:

go, AMD, go!

OpenGL i Microshit DirectX imaju duuuuguuuu tradiciju (Microsoft je podrzavao OpenGL 90tih dok im nije zabio noz u ledja ali je OpenGL ipak uspeo da prezivi) ali ono sto se sada desava je da oba tabora tavore... Odlicna je stvar da dodje treci sa hardwerskom podrskom (ni OpenGL ni Microsoft ne prave 3D hardware) i da im prodrma kavez!

pogotovo ako ce u svemu tome intel da izvuce deblji kraj 😀 (AMD ce mu diktirati API :d ~kao sa x64... 😉 bitno je da intel još uvek ima bolji proizvodni proces!)
Kliknite za proširenje...

Ja ne znam kada je AMD krenuo da razvija Mantle ali ovo sto se pominje u OP je poznata stvar vec nekoliko godina, samo sto implementacija nije jos gotova. Graham Sellers kaze da je sve platform independent.
 
Ne znam kako Microsoft misli sve ovo da implementira, ali ako bude makar malo približan Mantle-u, onda će to biti zaista veliko iznenađenje.

Ima li najava kako bi se mogao zvati taj budući DirectX, možda DirectX 12.0 ?
 
kosta10 je napisao(la):
Ne znam kako Microsoft misli sve ovo da implementira, ali ako bude makar malo približan Mantle-u, onda će to biti zaista veliko iznenađenje.

Ima li najava kako bi se mogao zvati taj budući DirectX, možda DirectX 12.0 ?
Kliknite za proširenje...

Trebalo bi da se zove DirectX 12 i da dolazi uz Win 9. 🙂 Tako sam negde procitao, ne secam se gde. 🙂
 
Mmmmm rat API-ja nista lepse od zdrave konkurencije 🙂 Ako se Microsoft mrdne sa mrtve tacke zvane DirectX 9 bice odlicno. Da malo pojasnim za mene je verzija 10 bila blago poboljsanje jer sam cuveni Crysis tero i sa verzijom 9 i 10 razlika vidljivih nije bilo uopste, a verzija 11 pa o njoj ne znam sta da mislim mogo bi reci opet neko blago poboljsanje. Naravno politika je jasna kocenje razvoja API-ja za desktop grafe kako ne bi mnogo bile ispred grafa iz konzola. Nadam se da ih je AMD malo prodrmao i da je vreme da konacno igramo fotorealisticne igre sa sve nekim VR setom ,) Konje za trke vec sad imamo i tek cemo imati kada se savlada manji proizvodni proces od strane GLOBALFOUNDRIES-a i TSMC-a i samim tim pojavi mozda ne nuzno bolja ali sigurno optimizovanija arhitektura GPU-ova 😉

We’ve already spoken about the possibility of Microsoft changing their DirectX API to be more like AMD’s new Mantle API - bringing developers more access to the actual performance hardware. Now it looks they are going to be announcing a whole new iteration of the Microsoft API and not just an update. A new Twitter account has appeared, called DirectX12, and has teased an announcement set to take place at the Games Developers Conference (GDC) in San Francisco in a couple weeks time. We’ve already heard about the Direct3D Futures and Evolving Microsoft’s Graphics Platform talks from the information that’s being sent around prior to the conference, but the only tweet out of DirectX12 so far links through to a static page teasing an announcement on the 20th March at 10am (PST I assume). Information about what DX12 will mean for gamers, and crucially what operating systems will be supported, has yet to be released. From Microsoft passim though I doubt we’ll see Windows 7 compatibility for DirectX 12, as the software creators have historically tried to encourage OS upgrades via locking down their new graphics APIs to the most recent operating systems. Fingers crossed that it will still include Windows 8 and 8.1 and wont be hanging around waiting for people to make the move to Windows 9 next year. But I wouldn’t put it past Microsoft. I’m also hoping this wont mark the return to the bad old, pre-DirectX, days where we had competing graphics APIs clogging the market and making PC gaming an even more complicated place to spend our leisure time. The shining hope is that AMD have been behind Microsoft implementing the sorts of changes that they have been making in their Mantle API. If that simply becomes subsumed by the new version of DirectX I don’t think AMD is likely to complain. After all, their hardware and driver teams have already been moving towards this goal and that may still give them a march over the competition.
Kliknite za proširenje...
Izvor http://www.pcgamer.com/2014/03/07/directx-12-is-incoming-is-this-a-return-to-the-api-wars/
 
Poslednja izmena:
Meni DX, Visual Studio i ostali Microsoft razvojni alati i API-ji nikako ne odgovaraju. Sebe u buducnosti iskljucivo vidim kako radim pod nekim Linuxom (preferiram Ubuntu zbog podrske) u C++ (Qt, CodeBlock, Eclipse) i kako koristim OpenGL API. Sve to mi je lako dostupno i besplatno. Ne verujem da cu ikada moci da opravdam cenu kostanja Microsoft alata i da se smaram sa njihovim sistemom licenciranja. Kao pocetniku OGL mi vise odgovara jer ono sto razvijam mogu naci primer svuda, kao i pojasnjenje kako izbeci greske u implementaciji. Ta nezvanicna i besplatna podrska iskusnijih developera mi mnogo vise znaci nego placena podrska koju nudi Microsoft. Tesko je naci MS devove koji su raspolozeni da pomognu za dz novajlijama kao sto su Open Source programeri.
 
Ja sam sebe pronasao u drugoj sferi programiranja tako da ne ulazim toliko u problematiku racunarske grafike kao ti mada te u potpunosti razumem 🙂 Doduse Linux sam zamrzeo zbog skript programiranja pa bezim ko djavo od krsta od njega (mogu da bezim kolko ocu ali opet moram da ga koristim :d) ali ispod haube je u nekim stvarima bolji od Windows-a tu nema dileme ali ne bih isao vise of topik 🙂
 
Poslednja izmena:
ima dobrih razloga da M$ da sve od sebe da napravi najbolji DX do sad, ne samo zbog pretnje u vidu Mantle-a, vec i zbog toga sto bi im to bio dobar izgovor, da bolje prodaju Windows 8, lepo odrade DX da daje bolji performans na njemu, nego na 7ci, kao sto je slucaj i sa trenutnom verzijom dx-a kolko vidim i to je to...
 
Novi DX nećeš ni videti na 7ci, a ni na 8ci 😀
MS i dalje drži najbolje karte u rukama, samo je pitanje kako će da igra sa njima...
 
pa dobro, nemam nista protiv, nek dodje na 9ci, samo da ne bude previse kasno 🙂
 
NVIDIA Talks DX12, DX11 Efficiency Improvements

http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Cards/NVIDIA-Talks-DX12-DX11-Efficiency-Improvements

09.jpg

10.jpg

12.jpg

16.jpg
 
Wrapping things up, while DirectX 12 is not scheduled for public release until the Holiday 2015 time period, Microsoft tells us that they’ve already been working on the API for a number of years now. So although the API is 18-20 months off from its public release, Microsoft already has a very early version up and running on partner NVIDIA’s hardware.
Kliknite za proširenje...
Izvor: Anandtech

Znači ... "Windows X"-ready 😉
 
Poslednja izmena:
Čisto proseravanje da rade godinama na njemu. Kao da ne znamo kako se kod njih odvijaju stvari.
 
Imam dva pitanja, jedno za nVidia-u, jedno za AMD:

@nVidia: Ako toliko ubrzanje moze da se postigne kroz DirectX, zasto tek sada a ne ranije?
@AMD: Ako toliko ubrzanje moze da se postigne kroz DirectX, zasto novi (proprietary) API ?
 
nvidia: zato jer smo HW kompanija pa ubrzanje možete imati i ako svake godine kupite novi komad HWa (plus novi OS od bratske nam kompanije s novim DXom koji podržava taj HW) :d
AMD: S Mantle-om su nam procesori konačno postali konkurentni, ali se Nevidiji i M$-u nije talasalo (iz gore navedenih razloga). Dok nisu morali ...

Dobro, ajde ... i developeri su zapeli zadnjih nekoliko godina.
 
Poslednja izmena:
DAS je napisao(la):
Imam dva pitanja, jedno za nVidia-u, jedno za AMD:

@nVidia: Ako toliko ubrzanje moze da se postigne kroz DirectX, zasto tek sada a ne ranije?
@AMD: Ako toliko ubrzanje moze da se postigne kroz DirectX, zasto novi (proprietary) API ?
Kliknite za proširenje...

Kako si samo došao do ovih pitanja kad ubrzanje ne može da se postigne kroz DX.
 
Ace Rimmer je napisao(la):
nvidia: zato jer smo HW kompanija pa ubrzanje možete imati i ako svake godine kupite novi komad HWa (plus novi OS od bratske nam kompanije s novim DXom koji podržava taj HW) :d
AMD: S Mantle-om su nam procesori konačno postali konkurentni, ali se Nevidiji i M$-u nije talasalo (iz gore navedenih razloga). Dok nisu morali ...

Dobro, ajde ... i developeri su zapeli zadnjih nekoliko godina.
Kliknite za proširenje...
bolji odgovor nisi mogao da dobijes 🙂
 
Auuu, njima d3d + user mode driver trosi isto koliko i game engine.. jos gore, ako se pogleda engine vs (d3d+usermode driver) vs (kernel+kernelmode driver) svi trose skoro podjednako. Game engine trosi ~33% frejma dok OS trosi ostalih ~66%... mislim da dx11
 
Uskoro 337.50 Beta:

Performance
Introduces key DirectX optimizations which result in reduced game-loading times and significant performance increases across a wide variety of games. Results will vary depending on your GPU and system configuration. Here are some examples of measured gains versus the previous 335.23 WHQL driver:

GeForce GTX 700 Series (Single GPU):

Up to 64% in Total War: Rome II
Up to 25% in The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
Up to 23% in Sleeping Dogs
Up to 21% in Star Swarm
Up to 15% in Batman: Arkham Origins
Up to 10% in Metro: Last Light
Up to 8% in Hitman Absolution
Up to 7% in Sniper Elite V2
Up to 6% in Tomb Raider
Up to 6% in F1 2013

GeForce GTX 700 Series (SLI):

Up to 71% in Total War: Rome II
Up to 53% in Sniper Elite V2
Up to 45% in Aliens vs. Predator
Up to 31% in Sleeping Dogs
Up to 20% in CoD: Black Ops 2
Up to 10% in Hitman Absolution
Up to 9% in F1 2013
Up to 7% in Far Cry 3
Up to 6% in Metro: Last Light
Up to 6% in Batman: Arkham Origins
Kliknite za proširenje...

http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=388074
 
Bez...

Videh negde da bi ovi drajveri trebalo da podrzavaju i tiled resources (DX11.2)
 
Poslednja izmena:
Odlicna stvar. Dobro je sto se ovo sve sa overhead-om pokrenulo, necu morati da mijenjam CPU jos solidan 'chunk' vremena.
 
mmsandi je napisao(la):
Odlicna stvar. Dobro je sto se ovo sve sa overhead-om pokrenulo, necu morati da mijenjam CPU jos solidan 'chunk' vremena.
Kliknite za proširenje...

upravo to, mada ni ovi 3570k i 4750k u stvari nisu neki napredak sto se tice naseg 2500k 😀 Nadam se bar jos tri godine da ce biti vrh ponude ovaj moj 😀
 
i5 i rahat 5 godina :d zivio mantle, da nije mantle pokrenut jos bi 5 godina DX11 bio na sceni ovako bar se nesto pokusava pokrenuti.
 
Morate se prijaviti ili registrovati da odgovorite ovde.
Nazad
Vrh Dno