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Philips 190S5 TFT

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16.12.2001
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Kakvi su utisci onih koji su eventualno probali monitor ? Deluje dosta solidno po zvanicnim karakteristikama (12ms, 500:1 i slicno) ali me naravno zanimaju direktni utisci, pogotovo jer je u pitanju devetnaestica. Cena joj je strasno primamljiva, svega ~410€, makar prema oglasima u sk.
 
Nije josh najjasnije odakle stampi i raznim firmama informacija o niskim response vremenim kod svih Philips LCD modela, kako sam chuo u izgovoru, Philips drzi lazne informacije(odnosno netachne) na svom sajtu u vezi ms kod svojih LCD monitora, meni jedino nije jasno zashto bi neko pogotovo Philips kao veliki proizvodjach, greshio i mozda uzrokovao svoju ne konkurentnost sa ostalim kompanijama koje se bave proizvodnjom LCD monitora.
Najvishe sto mozesh da nadjesh je specifikacija na Philipsovom site-u
170p5
Ovo je specifikacija u kojoj jasno pishe 16ms, na www.pba.philips.com mozesh da skines specifikaciju za isti monitor u kojoj pishe mozda >16ms.
Isto stoji i za monitore iz 19' klase
190b5
Trebalo bi da se razjasni tachno, sa pravim specifikacijama, kolika su tachno kashnjenja kod ovih monitora, da li neko namerno forsira lazne podatke ili je Philips ludo i neverovatno poshten ,te vam u specifikacijama tachno navodi koliko ms mogu da isteraju njihovi monitori, dok u raznim pamfletima koji su namenjeni raznim trzishtima navode chudne i ne proverene vrednosti.
Trebalo bi to da se razjasni.
 
OptiPlex je napisao(la):
Kakvi su utisci onih koji su eventualno probali monitor ? Deluje dosta solidno po zvanicnim karakteristikama (12ms, 500:1 i slicno) ali me naravno zanimaju direktni utisci, pogotovo jer je u pitanju devetnaestica. Cena joj je strasno primamljiva, svega ~410€, makar prema oglasima u sk.

pa to cudo nema DVI :smash:
 
Pa sta ? Kao da je DVI ko zna sta...ako je panel dobar svejedno mi je ima li ili nema dvi

@lucky
fala za korisne linkove...

@ostali
i dalje bih vol'o da cujem nekog ko je sedeo za doticnim, po mogucstvu duze od 2 minuta, da izvinete 🙂
 
Bash me zanima pravo objashnjenje.
I josh jedna stvar da li je neko uspeo da ostvari tu zero dead pixel free garanciju ukoliko mu se pojavio 1 ili 2 mrtva pixela.

Inache evo ukratko o polisama koje vaze za dead pixel-e:

Lite On, Phillips and Hitachi. All three have a zero tolerance to dead pixels but Phillips doesn't count unlit pixels as dead.
HP will only replace a monitor with there are 4 scattered faulty pixels or 3 clustered.
LG will replace a monitor if there are 2 within a 10cm circle.
NEX-NEC will replace 3 lit, 3 unlit or 6 color.
Samsung could try harder. Six dead pixels allowed on a 15", or nine on a 17", are too many.
Sony will replace if on a 15" panel there is 2 lit, 2 unlit or 4 dead. On 17" panels Sony will replace if there are 3 lit, 3 unlit or 7 dead.
Viewsonic will replace if on a 15" panel there is 2 lit, 2 unlit or 4 dead. On 17" panels Viewsonic will replace if there are 3 lit, 3 unlit or 7 dead.


Viewsonic:
For VA520, VA720, VA521 and VA721 Models only
Zero (0) Dead Pixel Guarantee!!!

All other LCD Models, ViewSonic sets limits on 14" - 15" LCD's at 3 bright sub-pixels, 3 dark sub-pixels, or a combination of 3.
ViewSonic sets limits on 17" - 19" LCD's at 5 bright sub-pixels, 5 dark sub-pixels, or a combination of 5.
ViewSonic sets limits on 20" & greater LCD's at 7 bright sub-pixels, 7 dark sub-pixels, or a combination of 7.
It is possible that any replacement display may also have some non-performing sub-pixels. This should be considered when requesting a warranty exchange
 
Poslednja izmena:
AG Neovo - Warranty Policy

AG Neovo warrants its LCD Displays have a warranty period of 36 months calculated from the invoice date.

How long the warranty is effective:
Purchases of all NEW AG Neovo LCD display products are warranted for 36 months for parts, labor, and the back light.
DOA (Dead On Arrival) with 30-days of purchase, AG Neovo Technology offers a 30-day DOA Replacement Policy, all the DOA return has to go through the original purchase store with original Invoice.
AG Neovo offers 3-year warranty for defective pixels, more information please look into AG Neovo LCD Display Standard Quality.

What the warranty does not cover:
Scratched, broken LCD PANEL or impurity problems due to damaged color mask of Panel.
Cracked PCB or abused housing and/or bezel.
Any failure damages due to customers mishandling, improper maintenance or use against the operating instruction.
Any damage due to misuse, abuse or negligence, for instance any extended exposure to video characters or patterns.
Any modified alteration made to the standard products that was not authorized by AG Neovo.
Monitors that have been partially repaired or modified by unauthorized service.
Monitors for which appropriate proof of purchase by the original customer that cannot be provide.

AG Neovo LCD Display Standard Quality

Due to current manufacturing methods of LCD display panels, a certain number of sub-pixel anomalies are acceptable. The larger the size of the panel, the more pixels and the greater the chance that some will be defective - remaining fully on/off or being only partially active. These defective pixels can usually be recognized as constant white/dark/colored areas on the screen.

To protect the end user and regulate a reasonable defective pixel rate in a LCD display for panel manufacturers, ISO has created a standard for LCD display manufacturers to follow. The specification determined four fault classes of LCD displays, with each have a certain number of pixels faults allowed. (See Table 1). Class I, LCD displays are considered "perfect" allowing zero pixel or sub pixel faults. However, this standard has been viewed as virtually IMPOSSIBLE or much too expensive. Class II, which allows for five pixel or sub-pixel faults, has been an extremely difficult standard for panel manufacturers to achieve in mass production. This groundbreaking achievement is a major breakthrough in the visual display industry and has set for others to follow. Consumers should be aware, that Class II displays have been certified according to manufacturing standards.

Table 1. Definition of ISO 13406-2 Fault Classes

Maximum number of faults per type per million pixels

Failure Class Type 1 Type 2 Type 3
Class I 0 0 0
Class II 2 2 5
Class III 5 15 50
Class IV 50 150 500
Failure Type 1 Fully luminous (color white)
Failure Type 2 Not fully luminous (color black)
Failure Type 3 e.g. defective sub-pixel ( color red, green, blue )

* One Pixel of a LCD consists of three sub pixels in the color red, green, and blue.

AG Neovo stands for a best quality control policy higher than industry standard to ensure our customers the best visual experience. AG Neovo now offers a three-year warranty for any defective pixels that meet the following criteria for our full range LCD Monitor product line:
Your new AG Neovo LCD Display has a "Four (4) pixel " defect guarantee. If your display has 4 or more defective pixels located anywhere on the screen, the monitor is considered defective and can be returned for a recondition one. For display purchased before 1st of January. 2003, the defective rate guarantee is five (5) pixels.


Your display is also defective if:
1. There is one or more defective pixels located in the center area of the screen (The center of the screen is the intersection of the two viewing-screen diagonals. The center area is defined as a circle with a 30mm radius extending from the center of the screen).
2. There are two (2) or more defective pixels on the viewing screen located within 5 mm of each other.
All AG Neovo Displays are categorized as Class II
 
Plus zakon kaze da ni jedan proizvod ne bi smeo da se isporuchi kupcu kao felerichan, ukoliko to jasno nije naglasheno ugovorom kupovine, te u prvih 7 dana(5 radnih), proizvod mora ispunjavati uslove ispravnog uredjaja a ukoliko se dokaze da je uredjaj felerichan odnosno neispravan, isti se mora zameniti novim ili se kupcu vracaju pare.

Ali niko se ovoga ne pridrzava. Ma kakva polisa bila, uredjaj mora biti chist i bez dead pixela u prvih 7 dana.
 
Poslednja izmena:
Ili ti Tomicin izveshtaj o Dead pixel-ima:

Hitachi makes a distinction between two matters. Their LCD monitors are guaranteed zer-dead pixels. Let's be quite clear about this - Hitachi means PIXELS and not SUB-pixels. They will replace your monitor, no questions asked, even if it only has one black or white dot, but not if the pixel is red, green or blue. At least this is what Hitachi US told us, but they pointed out this policy may not aply to Hitachi Europe, who did not reply to us.

Officially, Hyundai claims to replace panels after the third dead pixel. But they actually do so after two, on both 15" and 17" monitors, and whether they are unlit, lit or colored. Well done, Hyundai!

At LG, after a month and a half, we established that there are two attitudes.

In Europe, they were still waiting for Korea to answer. OK, but what if you are an end customer, are you realistically going to make a call to Korea? Obviously not. So we pretended to be a customer again and discovered a new rule, which is now a circle of 10cm in diameter. In the States, the attitude is different but no plainer. Far from it. There they talk about 25mm differences, colors, locations, etc. LG would be well-advised to simplify its procedures.

Hercules and Iiyama use figures which, unlike the ISO standard, apply equally to lit, colored or unlit pixels. We especially appreciate this in Iiyama; their policy is definitely better than the ISO standard.

While on the subject of Hercules, it is interesting to note that they have recently changed their replacement policy. The new one, in the table above, is already up and running, and takes the place of the previous one which required at least six dead pixels.


Lite On is the only manufacturer to claim that they will take back a panel with a single, solitary, defective pixel. It remains to be seen whether the superstores will follow suit. Sadly, it seems that this is not always the case: some of them apply a rule that requires three.

NEC has taken an original stance, which, fortunately, is to the advantage of users. The official line is that the manufacturer complies with the ISO 113406-2 standard. But they are aware of the standard's limits, and have thus decided to stretch it a bit and apply the same rule to 15" and 17" alike. And that's a good thing, too!

Neovo, CTX and Relisys all refused to reply. See comments on CTX and Relisys.

Packard Bell had yet another rule, which is vertically aligned pixels.

Then there is the Philips "zero-lit-pixel defect" guarantee, which covers the lack of lit or colored pixels, but not unlit ones. Still, unlit ones are not nearly so bothersome. So, praise to Philips for this initiative, even if they really should extend it to their entire range.


QDI sticks pretty much to the standard. The difference might just be due to a slip in their answer.

After getting an initial rejection from Relisys, we finally met with them at the CeBIT. Since then, Relisys has completely cleaned up its line of products. Gone are the days when 12 pixel errors were required before they took action. Now, all it takes are four or five faulty pixels (depending on the model) with the 15-inch models and seven pixels with the 17-inch model. However, this is still above the average and pushes the tolerance level.

Sony is one of the few exceptions: they follow the ISO standard, they understand it and they apply it.

Solarism has a straightforward policy: whether 15 or 17 inches, they change it after three dead pixels.

Samsung could try harder. Six dead pixels allowed on a 15", or nine on a 17", are too many!

ViewSonic assured us they have applied the ISO 13406-2 standard to the letter since it came into force. This is something of an exception.
 
OptiPlex je napisao(la):
Pa sta ? Kao da je DVI ko zna sta...ako je panel dobar svejedno mi je ima li ili nema dvi


Boze oprosti im, ne znaju koliko znaci DVI !!!

Inace cini mi se da je teze dobiti los pixel na 19" nego na 17" deluje mi logicno jer su krupniji, e sad mozda sam i ja nekad pzpzpz ... a i da ga dobijes nije to tako strasno.
 
Poslednja izmena:
Odlicno znam koliko znaci DVI. Uvek bih pre uzeo Sony bez DVI-a nego LG sa njim :d
 
OptiPlex je napisao(la):
Kakvi su utisci onih koji su eventualno probali monitor ? Deluje dosta solidno po zvanicnim karakteristikama (12ms, 500:1 i slicno) ali me naravno zanimaju direktni utisci, pogotovo jer je u pitanju devetnaestica. Cena joj je strasno primamljiva, svega ~410€, makar prema oglasima u sk.
probah i odusevih se! 🙂 imas u digitalu 32, dao sam mu 'OK' jer sam tada imao cenu 510, al' da je bilo 410 bio bi i/ili best buy. a da je jos imao i dvi bio bi editors choice. 😀
da ne duzim sad, sve je super - boje, ugao, odziv i ako ti treba 19-ica tesko da ces naci bolju od novih philipsa. pravo da ti kazem, ja se i ne secam dal' sam video neku drugu 19-icu da valja odziv (osim drugih philipsa). i to ne samo da valja, nego da nije ocaj! 😉
 
A jel mozes odziv da uporedis sa LG1730P/B ili sa 172X? Jel ono, zamucenje tek toliko da se moze videti ili je ipak vidljivo, kao realnih 16ms?
 
Hm....kolega je kupio doticni pre jedno 2-3 meseca po tadasnjoj (valjda extra) ceni od 630e.....
Sto rece Bahati [Sise i Dupe] (da prostite,ali setih se quake-ta 2 😀 ,i bio je odlican logo klana) probah i odusevih se....
Odziv je sigurno negde oko realnih 15-tak (ako ne i manje) ms,sto je fantasticno za tu velicinu TFT-a....krajnje impresivno.....
Ne mogu mnogo da ga poredim sa drugima posto na poslu imam 20-tak komada Samsung 170V (koliko se secam),ali kad uporedim ta dva,hm,hm,pa Philips je ****** Samsunga :d ,bar za sada...


Po mom misljenju odlican 19" TFT,i ako sam licno protiv da se TFT jos kupuje ako se na kompu igraju igre,gledaju filmovi,ili tv i sl......

P.S.Specijalno zbog ovog posta sam isao u Grocku da vidim monitor 🙂
 
Poslednja izmena:
Hvala puno svima na odgovorima. A i Twixu specijalno sto je isao do Grocke zbog moje malenkosti 🙂
 
Inache gledao sam 170p5 ima jako loshu i ne prirodnu gamu, ali uzasno, ono levo dugme valjda je magic bright malo popravlja utisak contrasta i luminanse, ugao vidljivosti je katastrofalan, vertikalno je ne podnoshljivo(jako diskutabilna vrednost od 140 pre bi se reklo 130-135 stepeni), ok ukoliko ste blizu monitora i za stolom u ofisu onda nije frka, ali ovako, loshe jako loshe. Oshtrina je ok ali nije u vrhunskoj klasi, vidjalo se i bolje, ochigledno je da ovaj monitor nije 12ms, vishe bi se reklo da je 16-19ms srednja-minimalna vrednosti. Prelivanje boja je jako slabo i dost uochljivo nije gore nego li na ostalim LCD monitorima ali nije ni najbolje, ipak je ovo monitor iz P klase. da mu je cena 310-320 eura maloprodajno bio bi ekstra kupovina, pogotovo ako mu dodamo zero dead pixel free. Ipak gledao sam ga samo 20 minuta.

Prijatno me je iznenadio 190x , pristojan sta vishe dobar ugao vidljivosti, jako simpatichne boje, priblizna gama bolja nego li na 170p, naravno ne ochekujte ni priblizno response od 12ms, vishe bi se reklo odnosno potpisujem da je 18-20ms srednja minimalna vrednost, ali je dosta dobar za jednu 19'. Katastrofalna mana je ne dostatak DVI-ja, na klasichnom analognom signalu uochljiv je duh i masna aura u slici. Oklop i maska je jako finog dizajna imaju jako finu boju, zif crnu, ochigledno je da Philips nastupa sa razlichitim specifikacijama na razlichita trzishta, izgleda da je u Evropi dozvoljena niza tolerancija tako da se njihove matrice kod nas deklarishu brzinom 12ms.
 
Poslednja izmena:
Sta je to masna aura?
 
OptiPlex je napisao(la):
Odlicno znam koliko znaci DVI. Uvek bih pre uzeo Sony bez DVI-a nego LG sa njim :d
Jasta, bre! 😉


Uostalom, bolje dobar odziv nego DVI...
 
Masna Aura je efekta koji bi se opisao ovako, zamisli da imash neki objekat na ekranu (ukoliko znash sta je aura u prirodi) i da dobijash rasipanje po ivicama iz pravca sredine ka spoljashnjosti koji pochinje od ivece objekta a zavrshava se u prostoru, opis masna deklarishe efekat blage masnoce koja se uochava u celom podruchju aure. Ghost u slici je opis senke u prostiranju, u najblazem sluchaju u pitanju je singl ghost udaljen 1/4mm, na nekim kartama tipa MSI GTS2 prva ozloglashena serija, ona sa dodatnom plochicom za tv-out, e na toj karti je mogao da se uochi sedmostruki ghost u slici na 160hz, inache to je bila najgora karta koju sam ikad video a da je ipak imala neki brand. Naravno efekat ghost-a postaje izrazeniji povecanjem hercaze, najmanje je primetan na 60hz a najvishe je primetan na recimo 200hz, naravno masna aura je takodje podlozna povecanju ukoliko se povecava hercaza.
 
byMaX je napisao(la):
A jel mozes odziv da uporedis sa LG1730P/B ili sa 172X? Jel ono, zamucenje tek toliko da se moze videti ili je ipak vidljivo, kao realnih 16ms?
mozda i mogu, ali necu. 😉 a neznam ni sta su to realnih 16ms. sve sto mogu da kazem je da nema problema sa igranjem na njemu. jednostavno, necu da dolazim u sledecu sitaciju:
lucky2001 je napisao(la):
potpisujem da je 18-20ms srednja minimalna vrednost
mozda to i jeste tako, al' ja, nazalost, nisam u mogucnosti da "potpisujem" nesto u sta se nisam uverio. 😉
 
Twix je napisao(la):
Sto rece Bahati [Sise i Dupe] (da prostite,ali setih se quake-ta 2 😀 ,i bio je odlican logo klana)
jel na ovo mislis? 🙂 eh, stvarno su to bila lepa vremena...
 

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Bahati [SiD] je napisao(la):
mozda i mogu, ali necu. 😉 a neznam ni sta su to realnih 16ms. sve sto mogu da kazem je da nema problema sa igranjem na njemu. jednostavno, necu da dolazim u sledecu sitaciju:
mozda to i jeste tako, al' ja, nazalost, nisam u mogucnosti da "potpisujem" nesto u sta se nisam uverio. 😉

To je dovoljno, samo da nije vidljivo losiji od 17-ica koje si hvalio... Sad jos da prelomim... 19-ica, sa shugavim 5:4 odnosom stranica i bez 1600 x 1200, ili da dajem gomilu para na Viewsonic 201VP
 
Uzmi ViewSonic-a, imaces ultra brzu 20-icu... a i bices smatran legendom zbog posedavanja takvog monitora! 😉

Ljudi ce u tebe gledati kao u Boga! :d:d:d
 
Sve je bolje nego da ga gledaju kao byMaxa :d 🙂
 
Bahati [SiD] je napisao(la):
jel na ovo mislis? 🙂 eh, stvarno su to bila lepa vremena...

[OFFTOPIC]
@Bahati[SiD]

Bas na to! 😀
Gde ga iskopa 😀
Zamisli kad je ovo jos zivo 🙂
http://www.netgames.co.yu/klan.htm

Aj sad,da ne skrecem sa teme....sorry svima 🙂

[/END OFFTOPIC]
 
Za koliko moze da se nadje 190X. Vidim da je jedina razlika po specifikacijama u odnosu na 190S u dizajnu i ugradjenim zvucnicima. Vredi li takav monitor ~450€ (objektivno, u odnosu na konkurenciju)?
 
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