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Istorija telefonije, i Srbi u njoj?

minketa

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11.06.2002
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Trebalo bi da se potsetim pocetaka telefonije, Pupina, nasih ljudi koji su ovde ostavili traga...

Pupin je 'pronasao' telefon, zar ne?
Secam se neke price da se, kao dete, s drugarima domundjavao tako sto bi zabo brisu u zemlju, lupkao po njoj... malo dalje, na istoj poljani, drugi deran bi naslonio uvo, sad je l' na brisu, je l' na zemlju, to ne mogu da setim, i osluskivao sta mu mladi Pupin porucuje.

Treba mi ovakva neka zgodna prica (mozda bas ova ako je imate u kompletu ili mozete da me uputite gde da je nadjem) i trebaju mi istorijske cinjenice o doprinosu nasih ljudi razvoju telefonije (telekomunikacija)... neka strana referenca, za ovo bi bila pun pogodak!

Pisem o telemedicini, video-telefonima u klinici, pa bih voleo da, u uvodu, pomenem Pupina,... neko nase ime koje se vezuje za pocetke telefonije.

Hvala!
I zivi bili!
 
Je l' moze neko od elektronicara da mi kaze makar, kakvog traga je Pupin ostavio u telefoniji?

Davno je bilo kad sam se ja interesovao za ovakve stvari i sad my memory plays games...
 
Britannica 2002 je napisao(la):
Telephone and Telephone System

Transmission

Development of long-distance transmission

From single-wire to two-wire circuits
As the distances between telephone instruments began to increase beyond those served by local exchange offices, a number of technical problems arose that had not been experienced in earlier telegraph systems. The principal difference between telegraph systems and the telephone system was that the frequencies of the signals carried by telephone lines were as much as 30 times greater than those of telegraph signals. The first telephone lines employed the same type of outdoor circuits as telegraph lines—namely, a single noninsulated iron or steel wire supported by wooden poles with glass insulators. Since electric signals require two wires, the second “wire” was a ground return through the earth. Unfortunately, the use of a single wire made the telephone circuit extremely susceptible to interference by other signals. This problem was addressed by the use of a two-wire, or “metallic,” circuit; the first demonstration of such a system occurred in 1881 on a telephone line between Providence, R.I., and Boston.

Even with the two-wire system, it soon became apparent that telephone signals could be transmitted only a fraction of the distance of telegraph signals, owing to the greater attenuation in iron and steel of the higher frequencies of telephone signals. Several individuals noted that copper wire greatly improved the situation, but manufacturing techniques produced brittle wire that was not self-supporting over the spans between poles. The problem was solved in 1877 with the invention of hard-drawn copper wire. In 1884 the first test of hard-drawn copper wire for long-distance telephone service was conducted between New York City and Boston.


Problems of interference and attenuation
Two-wire copper circuits did not solve all the problems of long-distance telephony, however. As the number of lines grew, interference (or cross talk) from adjacent lines on the same crossarm of the telephone pole became significant. It was found that transposing the wires by twisting them at specified intervals canceled the cross talk. Another major problem was caused by distance: over the lengths of long-distance lines, even the two-wire copper circuit attenuated the telephone signal significantly. In a series of theoretical papers published in book form in 1892, Oliver Heaviside, an English physicist, developed the theory behind the transmission of signals over two-wire circuits. In the United States, Michael I. Pupin of Columbia University in New York City and George A. Campbell of AT&T both read Heaviside's papers and realized that introducing inductive coils (loading coils) at regular intervals along the length of the telephone line could significantly reduce the attenuation of signals within the voice band (i.e., at frequencies less than 3.5 kilohertz). Both Campbell and Pupin applied for a patent on the concept of loading coils; after extended patent interference proceedings, the patent was finally awarded to Pupin in 1904. The first long-distance application of loading coils occurred in 1900, over a 40-kilometre circuit in Boston. It was followed later that year by a test over a 1,000-kilometre circuit. By 1925 approximately 1.25 million loading coils were in use over 3 million kilometres of wire circuits.

Even with the use of loading coils, telephone communication across countries as large as the United States was not possible without some form of amplification. A mechanical amplifier, which made use of an electromagnet receiver and a carbon transmitter, was installed in a commercial circuit between New York City and Chicago in 1904, but it was not until the patenting of the vacuum tube by Lee De Forest in 1907 that truly transcontinental telephone communication was possible. In 1915 the first transcontinental line, between New York City and San Francisco, was placed in service. Although this system was commercially viable, its cost and limited capacity (only one two-way circuit) prevented substantial growth of transcontinental telephony until carrier multiplexing techniques were introduced beginning in 1918. With carrier multiplexing, four or more two-way voice channels could be transmitted simultaneously over two-wire or four-wire circuits. By 1927 more than 5 million kilometres of long-distance circuits covered the entire United States—more than 10 times the circuitry present in 1900.



Copyright © 1994-2002 Encyclopædia Britannica, Inc.
 
Ukrtako mislim da je on izume neke kalemove koji su se koristili u telefonima
 
... i još uvek se koriste, u našem Telekomu, za ograničavanje brzine na poprečnim vezama ;)
 
Znaci, covek zasluzuje da bude pomenut :beat:
Svakog dana koristimo njegove patente... e sad, nekom otvaraju nove mogucnosti, a neko ih proklinje ;)
Mene sad zanima, koliko su ti njegovi kalemovi, sa danasnje pozicije, breakthrough u telefoniji?
Drugim recima, je l' to vredno pomena, ili je bolje da ne pominjem Srbe u istoriji telefonije.
 
koliko sam upoucen

Da nije bilo Pupina, trsko bi doslo do razvoja medjunarodne telefonije. Pa, nisu bili mutavi oni likovi kada su mu ponudili pare za patent kada im je pokazao sta je uradio. Pupina treba spomenuti.
 
minketa je napisao(la):
Trebalo bi da se potsetim pocetaka telefonije, Pupina, nasih ljudi koji su ovde ostavili traga...
Pupin je 'pronasao' telefon, zar ne?

Nije. Kao pronalazac telefona u svim enciklopoedijama navodi se A.G. Bell.
Ono cime je telefoniju Pupin najvise zaduzio, zove se u zargonu "Pupinovi kalemovi" a u stvari predstavlja nacin kompenzacije zavrsne impedanse -opet u zargonu -Zc, u cilju smanjenja gubljena SNAGE signala na vodovima .


minketa je napisao(la):
Secam se neke price da se, kao dete, s drugarima domundjavao tako sto bi zabo brisu u zemlju, lupkao po njoj... malo dalje, na istoj poljani, drugi deran bi naslonio uvo, sad je l' na brisu, je l' na zemlju, to ne mogu da setim, i osluskivao sta mu mladi Pupin porucuje.

Treba mi ovakva neka zgodna prica (mozda bas ova ako je imate u kompletu ili mozete da me uputite gde da je nadjem) i trebaju mi istorijske cinjenice o doprinosu nasih ljudi razvoju telefonije (telekomunikacija)... neka strana referenca, za ovo bi bila pun pogodak!

Ne secas se TI , Pupin se seca u svojoj romantizovanoj autobiografskoj knjizi S' Pasnjaka - do naucenjaka ili tako nekako.

To objasnjenje svog patenta "kompenzacije gubitka snage pomocu koncentrisanih ravnomerno rasporedjenih opterecenja - umesto poduzno raspodjenih" analogijom sa gumenom trakom i olovnim kuglicama u mehanici jedno je od blistavijih trenutaka klasicne fizike i elektrotehnike.



Izdao je Nolit pre desetak godina. Knjiga je fenomenalna iako se u njoj skoro i ne spominje N.Tesla koji mu je bio savremenik i još kako značajan (mislim da su u pitanju čisto srpska posla).

PS
Inace ta knjiga bila je pre rata u obaveznoj lektiri osnovnih skola i mislim da će se kad tad ponovo vratiti jer to zaslužuje i još je dobio Pulicerovu nagradu za nju.
 
[/quote] Mene sad zanima, koliko su ti njegovi kalemovi, sa danasnje pozicije, breakthrough u telefoniji?
Drugim recima, je l' to vredno pomena, ili je bolje da ne pominjem Srbe u istoriji telefonije.[/quote]

U ono vreme je bio "breakthrough", a biti Srbin, a ne pomenuti ga je zlocin prema nama samima :).
Ljudi se hvale i sa manjim umovima od njegovog i Teslinog.
Sto se tice njihovog odnosa, po onome sto sam ja citao, bili su dijametralno suprotnog karaktera.
Imao sam srecu da pre jedno 6-7 godina citam prvo izdanje Pupinove knjige "Od pasnjaka do naucenjaka" iz 20-ih, 30-ih godina... definitivno treba procitati.
Ako nista da znamo da imamo sa kim da se ponosimo :)

tatatatira,
Konfuzije cheers
 
re

AlexxandarYo je napisao(la):
Ukrtako mislim da je on izume neke kalemove koji su se koristili u telefonima
Svi nasi ljudi koji su poznati u svetu zasluzuju i da budu slavljeni kod nas!
 
Da nije bilo Pupina, trsko bi doslo do razvoja medjunarodne telefonije

ne slazem se sa tim, jer...


In the United States, Michael I. Pupin of Columbia University in New York City and George A. Campbell of AT&T both read Heaviside's papers and realized that introducing inductive coils (loading coils) at regular intervals along the length of the telephone line could significantly reduce the attenuation of signals within the voice band (i.e., at frequencies less than 3.5 kilohertz). Both Campbell and Pupin applied for a patent on the concept of loading coils; after extended patent interference proceedings, the patent was finally awarded to Pupin in 1904


znachi i George A. Campbell iz AT&T je dosao do istog zakljucka, a presudna je bila birokratija....

Nikako da ovim umanjujem pupinov znachaj u telefoniji, nego cisto da ne bude preterivanje....
 
Mos Def je napisao(la):
Da nije bilo Pupina, trsko bi doslo do razvoja medjunarodne telefonije

U nauci su dva najznacajnija pitanja koja je i pokrecu :
1. Zasto ? i
2. Kako ?


Kad-tad NEKO na prvo pitanje da tacan odgovor.

E, sad je bitno KADA taj neko dodje do odgovora. M.Pupin je bio veoma dugo na pragu otkrica kompenzacije poduzne kapacitivnosti PTT vodova i to mu niko ne moze osporiti, na temelju svih njegovih radova!!!

znachi i George A. Campbell iz AT&T je dosao do istog zakljucka, a presudna je bila birokratija....
Nikako da ovim umanjujem pupinov znachaj u telefoniji, nego cisto da ne bude preterivanje....

Otprilike ti je poredjenje kao kada bi sada u mobilnoj telefoniji nesto patentirao Sreten ili Bogoljub Karic. A. Campbell iz AT&T ne predstavlja u nauci ni 10% Pupina, ali ga to nije smetalo da redovno obilazi sva znacajnija predavanja i kongrese na kojima su se iznosile nove ideje u to vreme, tako da je slobodno mogao i svojim umom da dodje do resenja, to ne sporim.

Koliko je mesto Pupina u nauci i tehnici svakako se bolje vidi spolja, ali se kod nas ni rec ne zbori vise o njegovim "zaslugama" pri stvaranju kraljevine SHS na ciju je sudbinu imao i te kakvog uticaja.

ON je bio izaslanik u ime srba na mirovnoj konferenciji posle I sv. rata pre svega kao licni prijatelj T. Ruzvelta. Pripajanje ISTRE je jedan od njegovih diplomatskih uspeha.
 
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